Forrest Griffen vs Micheal Bisping

angryjonny · 06-25-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

What are you talking about? When did he not show up? Bonnar is 9-2. His loss to Griffin could have gone either way. He beat Jardine in a close decision, but that's nothing to be ashamed about. Jardine is a very impressive striker and a black belt in BJJ. Bonnar and Jardine are clearly as much contenders as Griffin is.

I think he is referring to the fact that Bonnar put on an awesome show with Forrest. Barely got a win over a c-level fighter at best in Sam Hoger, completely dominated Irvin, then got whopped by Jardine but still got the win. Bonnar is still a question mark to me. He can do really well but he does not perform that way in every fight.

stillstanding · 06-26-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

What are you talking about? When did he not show up? Bonnar is 9-2. His loss to Griffin could have gone either way. He beat Jardine in a close decision, but that's nothing to be ashamed about. Jardine is a very impressive striker and a black belt in BJJ. Bonnar and Jardine are clearly as much contenders as Griffin is.

Do i have to explain again why Forrest is ahead of Jardine Bonner and Evans?

stillstanding · 06-26-2006, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumzCT

Well the question really is (not to take anything from Forrest because I'm a big fan of his and he's tough as nails) could Bisping bring a under-conditioned and injured Tito to a close decision, and I think he could. If it was a %100 Tito every round would've been like the first.

You have a very good point, I agree and disagree with that comment. I think that if Tito was 100% that the fight would have been more one sided but I dont think it would be a total push over.

PS thanks for being respectful unlike other posts
You have my respect on both actions and views.

stillstanding · 06-26-2006, 01:00 AM

PS....
For the record as of right now, I would bet my car on Griffin over Bisping

PghPens71 · 06-26-2006, 01:34 AM

What kind is it??
I'll bet MY car and my box of Fruit Loops Bisping KOs him with a Royal Airfoce Knee.

Mulla · 06-26-2006, 05:50 AM

I think this would be a great matchup. If it happened soon Id probably give the edge to Forrest, purely because of experience but I think if Michael trained with some more top level fighters and had a couple more matches in the big show then he'd definately have a good chance of winning.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Barely got a win over a c-level fighter at best in Sam Hoger.

I guess the difference in our perspecitives is that I don't agree that Hoger is a push-over. Bonnar is still neck and neck with Griffin and so is Jardine. Any of the three could win or lose against each other on a given day. Now it remains to be seen if Evans is there too.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillstanding

Do i have to explain again why Forrest is ahead of Jardine Bonner and Evans?

I wish you would. Or point me to where you did already, because I haven't seen it. I hope you don't just mean this:
Forrest gained the respect of Tito Oritz and in my (controversial) oppinion, beat Tito.

Because all that proves is that Griffin fought Tito and Bonnar and Jardine didn't.

Nimmy · 06-26-2006, 08:47 AM

i find it hard to find ur reasoning as to why forrest isnt better than jardine and bonnar.
Bonnar vs jardine, both sluggish and Forrestin my opinion could have beat both
Bonnar vs Hogar, in my opinion was a poor poor show by Bonnar
I watched Jardine vs some other guy Wilson or Wilma, u get the picture, the reason he won becuase the guy gassed.

in my opinion i see Hogar as a C- fighter, Jardine C+, Bonnar C+ and Griffen B+, i would also based on my experience of Bisping in other promotions say Bisoing is B+

angryjonny · 06-26-2006, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

I guess the difference in our perspecitives is that I don't agree that Hoger is a push-over. Bonnar is still neck and neck with Griffin and so is Jardine. Any of the three could win or lose against each other on a given day. Now it remains to be seen if Evans is there too.

Well you may see something in Hoger that I don't but I don't see him even maintaining the status of a "gatekeeper" in the UFC. I am not even sure he could win a title in one of the smaller promotions. He almost got armbarred by "The Karate Kid" for cryin out loud. Then after the fight was going on about how awesome his JJ is. He will eventually fade away from the UFC and go the way of Bobby Southworth, Chris Sanford, and the rest of the TUF castaways. I respect the guy for trying and sort of making it in the big show but he doesn't have much of a future.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

Bonnar vs jardine, both sluggish and Forrestin my opinion could have beat both

As long as you realize it's just an opinion. The only fact is, Griffin beat Bonnar in a very close fight that could have gone either way, and nothing has been proven since then.

Griffin fought well against Tito, but that often happens when someone or some team goes up a against a better competitor. You either fold, or you bring your A-game. Griffin brought his A-game.

We somewhat agree, because I don't consider Griffin/Bonnar/Jardine/Evans to be any more than B-class fighters. The fact that they are so close means that none of them is exceptional, they're just very good. I'll be surprised if any of them wins a belt.

subgenius · 06-26-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

As long as you realize it's just an opinion. The only fact is, Griffin beat Bonnar in a very close fight that could have gone either way, and nothing has been proven since then.

Griffin fought well against Tito, but that often happens when someone or some team goes up a against a better competitor. You either fold, or you bring your A-game. Griffin brought his A-game.

We somewhat agree, because I don't consider Griffin/Bonnar/Jardine/Evans to be any more than B-class fighters. The fact that they are so close means that none of them is exceptional, they're just very good. I'll be surprised if any of them wins a belt.

If they are each given the time to develop, then they can do anything. Many people seem to expect Sanchez, Griffin, Bisping, etc, etc, to jump in immediately and take on champions. That is just not going to happen in all due likelihood. Nate Quarry got KO'd. That pretty much proved that these younger fighters need a lot of time to develop.

Look at our current champions. These are not young guys. Hughes, Franklin, and Liddell are all older fighters with a lot of experience. I forget how old AA and Sylvia are, but I bet they are older than 28 or 30 years old. So, I fail to understand why people want these younger, inexperienced fighters to be tossed in with seasoned veterans...

Nimmy · 06-26-2006, 11:26 AM

i dont agree with ur reasoning on that one, karo parysian is a young guy and considered by many as a number 1 contender, in the heaveyweight divison Vera is considered by many better or if not as good as the current champ, another young guy who nver got a chance was lawlor, until diaz beat him he looked unstoppable, what age was BJ when he won the belt? guys like bisping arnt young and arnt inexperienced. he has fought in many MMA promotions outside USA.

subgenius · 06-26-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

i dont agree with ur reasoning on that one, karo parysian is a young guy and considered by many as a number 1 contender, in the heaveyweight divison Vera is considered by many better or if not as good as the current champ, another young guy who nver got a chance was lawlor, until diaz beat him he looked unstoppable, what age was BJ when he won the belt? guys like bisping arnt young and arnt inexperienced. he has fought in many MMA promotions outside USA.

That may be true, but those were fighters that fought high level opponents earlier on before TUF. The UFC does not want a repeat of the Franklin-Quarry fight. The fact that Diego Sanchez has not seen a title shot speaks volumes. And, look at the poor record that Baby Jay has posted in his last four fights. He went 2-2. He is sliding down, not building up. Karo Parisyan lost to GSP. He too has holes in his game, and would likely NOT win against Hughes. GSP may not be there either, but he has faced a lot of higher level talent. The whole idea behind TUF is to develop the fighters that win, not burn them up and toss them aside.

Nimmy · 06-26-2006, 12:11 PM

i agree with u on rushing fights, but age isnt an issue

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

i dont agree with ur reasoning on that one, karo parysian is a young guy and considered by many as a number 1 contender, in the heaveyweight divison Vera is considered by many better or if not as good as the current champ, another young guy who nver got a chance was lawlor, until diaz beat him he looked unstoppable, what age was BJ when he won the belt? guys like bisping arnt young and arnt inexperienced. he has fought in many MMA promotions outside USA.

Right on. Aside from the ones you mentioned, Vitor Belfort would probably be the prime example. He's had an entire career before the age of 29 (his current age).

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

The UFC does not want a repeat of the Franklin-Quarry fight. The fact that Diego Sanchez has not seen a title shot speaks volumes.

I would agree with that. It really defeats the UFC's plan for building stars when an up-and-comer gets owned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

The whole idea behind TUF is to develop the fighters that win, not burn them up and toss them aside.

The true winners would rise to their potential even without being nursed along. They just wouldn't have the same win/loss record.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Well you may see something in Hoger that I don't but I don't see him even maintaining the status of a "gatekeeper" in the UFC.

“A lot of it is expectations,” admits Bonnar. “I heard a lot of people saying, ‘Who’s this Jardine? Oh, they’re giving Bonnar a tomato can.’ And Jardine’s far from a tomato can; he’s a tough guy. The same thing with Sam Hoger – ‘oh, I thought Bonnar was just gonna walk right through Hoger,’ and Rashad got the same thing, ‘I thought Rashad was gonna smash Hoger.’ He (Hoger) trains with Miletich and Tim Sylvia and he’s a tough guy. So I think it’s more the perception of how people thought we were gonna walk through those opponents, even though those opponents were really good.”

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=2803

angryjonny · 06-26-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

“A lot of it is expectations,” admits Bonnar. “I heard a lot of people saying, ‘Who’s this Jardine? Oh, they’re giving Bonnar a tomato can.’ And Jardine’s far from a tomato can; he’s a tough guy. The same thing with Sam Hoger – ‘oh, I thought Bonnar was just gonna walk right through Hoger,’ and Rashad got the same thing, ‘I thought Rashad was gonna smash Hoger.’ He (Hoger) trains with Miletich and Tim Sylvia and he’s a tough guy. So I think it’s more the perception of how people thought we were gonna walk through those opponents, even though those opponents were really good.”

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=2803

Is Bonnar going to admit something like that? Of course he wants to make him sound like he was a tough challenge. I have only heard maybe once or twice where a fighter has admitted that it was an easy fight and the guy was a tomato can.

I still think he is nothing special. He got into the semi's on TUF 1 by doing nothing. The only reason people talked about him was because of the drama that was created and the whole stealing stuff schenanigans.

Like I said he struggled with a karate guy on the ground.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

I still think he is nothing special. He got into the semi's on TUF 1 by doing nothing.

I don't think he's going anywhere either, but I do think he's a tough guy to beat, and he deserves a place in the UFC. There are a lot of guys like him who are never going to be contenders. Hoger's real problem is that he's not very interesting to watch because of his style.