Forrest Griffen vs Micheal Bisping

subgenius · 06-26-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Right on. Aside from the ones you mentioned, Vitor Belfort would probably be the prime example. He's had an entire career before the age of 29 (his current age).

I said "young" and that does mean age, but what I am talking about is inexperience. BTW, where is Vitor Belfort now? I am not slamming him, but maybe he was rushed along at an early point in his career. However, the fact remains that the current elite in the UFC are all older than 30 years of age...

subgenius · 06-26-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

I don't think he's going anywhere either, but I do think he's a tough guy to beat, and he deserves a place in the UFC. There are a lot of guys like him who are never going to be contenders. Hoger's real problem is that he's not very interesting to watch because of his style.

SUASAGE TITS RULZ! LOL. Sorry, but Sam Hogar has some funny things to say sometimes. I laughed my butt off when he said that he was his own hero. Jardine, however, is a gaidojitsu blackbelt just like Diego Sanchez, and they both train with Greg Jackson. Jardine is, indeed, a tough fighter. I think and feel that he will do well in the next few years -- long after we have forgotten about Rashad Evans, Brad Imes, or Mike Whitehead.

Feza · 06-26-2006, 03:34 PM

I think he'll be ready soon for a match up with Forrest. Here's some info i found of Mike's current stats....

Result...Opponent......Method ........ Event Title ....................Date ...Round ..Time

Win Josh Haynes TKO (Strikes) UFC-Ultimate Fighter 3 Finale 6/24/2006 2 4:14
Win Ross Pointon Submission (Armbar) CWFC-Strike Force 4 11/26/2005 1 2:00
Win Jakob Lovstad Submission (Strikes) CWFC-Strike Force 3 10/1/2005 1 1:10
Win Miika Mehmet TKO (Corner Stoppage) CWFC-Strike Force 2 7/16/2005 1 3:01
Win Alex Cook Submission (Choke) FX3-Xplosion 6/18/2005 1 3:21
Win Dave Radford TKO CWFC-Ultimate Force 4/30/2005 1 2:46
Win Mark Epstein KO CR 9-No Mercy 11/27/2004 3 4:43
Win Andy Bridges KO P & G 3-Glory Days 8/7/2004 1
Win Mark Epstein TKO CR 7-Battle of Britain 7/10/2004 2 1:27
Win John Weir TKO UKMMAC 7-Rage & Fury 5/30/2004 1
Win Steve Mathews Submission (Armbar) P&G 2-Battle of the Ages 4/10/2004 1 0:38

Michael "The Count" Bisping (11-0-0)
Won the Vacant CWFC Light-Heavyweight Title at Cagewarriors Ultimate Force vs. Dave Radford
Sucessfully defended title against Miika Memet at Cagewarriors Strike Force 2
Sucessfully defended title against Jakob Lovstad at Cagewarriors Strike Force 3
Sucessfully defended title against Ross Pointon at Cagewarriors Strike Force 4
Has won the CWFC Light-Heavyweight Title outright

angryjonny · 06-26-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

I don't think he's going anywhere either, but I do think he's a tough guy to beat, and he deserves a place in the UFC. There are a lot of guys like him who are never going to be contenders. Hoger's real problem is that he's not very interesting to watch because of his style.

I can't disagree with that. He is tough, I should reiterate that. He is no pushover. Maybe I'm a bit hard on the guy. He needs technique though along with the toughness. Kind of like how I view Haynes. If both of these guys could get some good technique then they could actually make a difference in the division.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Maybe I'm a bit hard on the guy. He needs technique though along with the toughness. Kind of like how I view Haynes. If both of these guys could get some good technique then they could actually make a difference in the division.

I agree, they should both improve their technique, with the caveat that Haynes also has to move down to at least 185.

lvsuspect · 06-26-2006, 06:22 PM

Good fight.. It will probabley happen sooner than later..

Thrash13 · 06-26-2006, 08:22 PM

It looks like I missed a lot of this topic after saying Bonnar shows up on occasion and doesn't show up on occasion.

Bomber, I am actually a fan of Stephan Bonnar, but the truth is what angryjonny said. He shows up and looks dominant on occasions, and then he looks awful the next fight. His performance against Sam Hogar was anything but impressive, and his showing against Keith Jardine wasn't anything to call home about.

Since Forrest and Stephan fought in the TUF1 finale, Forrest has improved quite a bit. Stephan, on the other hand, looks the same to me. Forrest is moving up in competition, and Stephan is maintaining his rank. There is a reason for that, and Dana sees it just like everyone else does. There is a reason Stephan Bonnar isn't on PPVs right now.

Like I said, I'm a fan of Stephan Bonnar, and I hope he whips Rashad Evans. That being said, it's clear that he doesn't bring the same intensity to every fight. The best fighters in the UFC, on the other hand, bring 110% every single time they fight.

DrumzCT · 06-26-2006, 08:27 PM

First off, Bisping looks great, tons of potential. Love his striking style, intense but clean. He does have a nice no-loss record but here's the records of the guys he fought before Haynes (according to Sherdog)

Ross Pointon 4-7
Jakob Lovstad 9-3
Miika Mehmet 3-3
Alex Cook 8-4
Dave Radford 0-1
Mark Epstein 11-7
Andy Bridges 1-2
Mark Epstein 11-7
John Weir 3-2
Steve Mathews 0-4

Average of opponent is approx. 4.3 - 3.6, round up or whatever you wanna do. Now this is just for comparison sake and also note that these guys have fought soley in the UK. Not that UK fighters aren't good or anything like that, they just don't have many names over there, none of these guys (Bisping included) have fought any big names.

All of this is merely to show that Bisping is less tested than Griffin,Bonnar,Jardine. Do I still think he can beat Forrest, yes, I still think he can beat Forrest. I think that the toughest fight for him out of those three would be Jardine.

The thing with Forrest and Bonnar is that because of their fight they are largely touted as strikers and they swing alittle too wide and recklessly for that to be considered thier bread and butter. I think both of them have better ground games than stand up, however I love watching them fight because they are exciting to watch because of that same sort of reckless/open style that I criticize.

Forrest got outstruck by Tito (IMO) (I forget who had the fight all broken down with every strike and I can't find the post, any help on that would be cool)
Bonnar got outstruck by Jardine (IMO) and it will be interesting to see how he does against Rashad. I think he'll pull it off, but I think he'll trouble on his feet and Rashad will be tough to take down.

I think Bisping has cleaner technique standing than both of them which is why I would favor him over either but as I said early, he's not as tested as either of them either which until he fights some guys who have a more "gauge-able" skill level, it's hard to know for sure.

...so basically I spent all that time to say "who knows"

Harms · 06-26-2006, 08:29 PM

So who would be a good next fight for Bisping in everyone's humble opinion?

DrumzCT · 06-26-2006, 08:35 PM

Marvin Eastman or James Irvin would be a good first test that I think he could handle.

Bomber · 06-26-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrash13

His performance against Sam Hogar was anything but impressive, and his showing against Keith Jardine wasn't anything to call home about.

That's the difference in our perceptions. I think Hoger and especially Jardine, (among others), are tough opponents for either Bonner or Griffin. I'm not saying that Hoger could beat either, but Jardine might.

Master Jones · 06-26-2006, 11:19 PM

I think Mike would do better at 185 div....

Nimmy · 06-27-2006, 09:05 AM

im amazed by the way people are jumpin on the jardine bandwagon, i think this guy is remotley average at best

Bomber · 06-27-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

im amazed by the way people are jumpin on the jardine bandwagon, i think this guy is remotley average at best

I put Jardine, Bonnar, Griffin and Evans in the same league. These guys are above average UFC fighters, but they're not contenders. It remains to be seen if any of them will become legitimate contenders.

Do you think Bonnar is "remotely average"? He didn't think he should have steamrolled Jardine. He wasn't at all disapointed that he squeaked out a victory. Jardine is definitely in Bonnar's class, and Bonnar is in Griffin's class as shown in their showdown.

subgenius · 06-27-2006, 10:56 AM

The Dean of Mean, Keith Jardine, has had a 4-0 KOTC record. He also now has a 3-1 UFC record. He is a relatively experienced fighter at 11-2-1 (his one draw being in Pancrace). He is now in his 5th year as a MMA fighter and he is a gaidojutsu blackbelt. I think that he is right where he needs to be at this point in his career. If he loses more matches, then he may be gone from the UFC within a year. But, I think that he will win far more than he will lose. In a few years, I think that he will be seen as a great fighter and much more well-respected...

Nimmy · 06-27-2006, 06:51 PM

i think bonnar is average also, u say forrest is the same as bonnar, in my personal opinion i disagree, reason being forrest was picked as the fight for tito, one of the biggest fights of the year ( the return of Tito) not only did he show up he was a ball hair off a win, would bonnar get the shot- no, woul dbonnar put up as good a show as Forrest - no, would Bonnar win in a rematch with Forrest - no chance

PghPens71 · 06-27-2006, 07:13 PM

The most explosive one of the 4 to me (jardine, bonnar, evans, forrest) is jardine... I do like watching him. Bonnar and Evans are boring, bonnar will win tomorrow but not by stoppage. Forrest and Jardine is alot more appealing to me than Bonnar/forrest II.

Bomber · 06-27-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

forrest was picked as the fight for tito, one of the biggest fights of the year ( the return of Tito)

Maybe that's the advantage of being the TUF winner.

WheresBobbySouthworth · 06-27-2006, 11:51 PM

You guys know more about this stuff than me, but can anyone explain why Bisping gets this kind of love? I'm not fighter bashing, but seriously, his opponents were not very skilled or experienced.

jmag · 06-28-2006, 12:07 AM

He's a beast.