Unknown

I find the general concept of a WWE vs. UFC fight to be ludicrous.

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subgenius

I said it before, a win for the UFC over the WWE will not hurt the WWE. A win for the WWE over the UFC will hurt the UFC.

Kurt Angle does not just do wrestling in pro-wrestling. He also does many of the various submissions, even though we all know it's well staged. He still does know how to do a variety of submissions. He also has GnP ability. His fore-arm shots are not something to take lightly. When he is on top, he likes to grind that fore-arm into the face of the opponent. It is hard to fake that and it not look fake. They do it for real for effect.

Angle also always wears a mouth-piece like MMA fighter do, and very few pro-wrestlers do that. He has always stayed in excellent shape. When he wrestles, he goes at it for 15-minutes, 20-minutes, and more. He is not likely going to gas out in any 3-round, 5 minutes per round match. Yes, he has been injured. But, all you need to do is watch ECW on Sci-Fi to see that this guy is the main attraction -- the whole damn show. The WWE has long known that Kurt Angle is a real fighter.

That being said, I agree with Jonny here. The UFC might talk the big talk, but they would not toss Chuck Liddell into a pro-wrestling ring only to see Kurt Angle use real live fighting without any rules. The ECW has no rules. Liddell would be out of his element. But, in the Octagon, where rules prevail, then it would be a tough match. I would want Angle to win, but that is not to prove that pro-wrestling is superior. Look what Kimo did to Bigelow. No, if Angle wins it will only prove that Angle is for real -- not all of pro-wrestling.

I actually think that the WWE does not really want Angle to fight in the UFC in an MMA match. I think they like it that things are ambiguous. Angle might like it the UFC and the WWE would lose him...

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BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

Unknown

I agree with that last statement Subgenius. Kurt Angle is the only pro wrestler I would believe has the chance of winning in a high level MMA fight.

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subgenius

For those that may still be Angle-doubters, here is some more information on Kurt Angle that you may not know:

1996 Olympic freestyle champion at 220 pounds
1996 World champion
Six-time U.S. national champion
Inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in 2001

Was the fourth American to win titles at Junior Nationals (1987), NCAAs (1990, 1992), Worlds (1995) and the Olympic Games (1996). Angle flirted with an Olympic comeback in 2002, but then was beset with injuries; had neck surgery in April of 2003. This has since been declared fully healed.

In 1995, Kurt had a tryout with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Kurt recalls the day for NFL.com: "I had a very good tryout, but I never played college ball. Everything I did went exceptionally well, but my 40 time was really slow. I ran a 4.8 that day. It was February and it was snowing so it was very hard to get my traction on the turf out there. But I don’t regret having the tryout and I don’t regret not making it because I wouldn’t be here right now. I wouldn’t have gotten my Olympic gold medal. I wouldn’t trade that for anything in the world."

And, he is being taken seriously enough by MMA to be interviewed in Real Fighter Magazine:

REAL FIGHTER MAGAZINE
Check the premier issue of Real Fighter Magazine where it features Kurt Angle discussing his personal thoughts on MMA. Real Fighter Magazine is the official MMA magazine of the sport and covers the intensity of UFC, Pride, and K1. Go to www.realfightermag.com today

He does look to be in great shape:

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BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

Unknown

I will disagree with this last comment simply because looking to be in great shape and actually being in great shape are two totally different things especially in kurt angles line of work.

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subgenius

That is true. I just thought it would help visualize and understand who Kurt Angle is... I could easily post his Olympic pictures. He is actually in better shape today than he looks in those older pictures. But, he is a pro-wrestler that performs in hard action-packed matches 52 weeks a year, often twice a week. He has been doing that for about eight years.

But, look at most pro-wrestlers with that type of experience. Most of them wear knee braces and have massively taped up knees and ankles. Kurt Angle never wears any knee braces or taped knees. The reason for that is that he is, indeed, far superior to any pro-wrestler in cardiovascular conditioning and physical conditioning in general.

Angle's neck is always going to be the problem area for his body. No matter how much they say he has healed it. A RNC or a guillotine choke will end the match with him immediately -- like it would most any MMA fighter. But, Angle would be in serious danger of a serious kneck injury.

The UFC may not allow Angle to fight strictly due to his neck history. However, in pro-wrestling, the opponents are under contract to NOT attack or hurt Angle's neck. The same contract was in place for Stone Cold Steve Austin's knees. Nobody goes for his knees. Any MMA match would not be so favorable...

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BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

sitnspin

I agree with whoever said this whole thing is ludicrous. Taking nothing away from Angle's accomplishments as an olympian, the guy's now been in pro-wrestling for years, and his body is destroyed. Injuries upon injuries. There's a reason why so many of them are addicted to painkillers (read or watch interviews with the guys who've retired after years in the sport and they'll tell you vicodin and cortizone shots to perform while injured are as common as eating breakfast).

Plus, as has been said, Angle's an entertainer. I don't care how rough pro wrestling can get, it's still an environment where punches are pulled whenever possible, and the power moves are done with the full cooperation of the person at the receiving end. MMA fighters train full time to fight at full contact with 100% intent and intensity. Sylvester Stallone might look like he's throwing these incredible rights in Rocky movies, but the real heavyweight champion at the time any of those movies were shot would have knocked his ass out inside of one round, regardless of what kind of shape Stallone was in or how hard he was training, because his end result is for show, and it's the same with Angle.

I'd like to know who it was from the UFC that actually gave that quote that got posted on the wrestling website, IF ANYONE. I'd like to hear it from Dana White, because the last thing I heard from him on the subject was that the UFC had no interest in any involvement with pro wrestling, because it would bring their credibility into question.

Also, in terms of Chuck fighting Silva, Dana says he's offered to cross-promote that fight in the past, and he made the same offer when Randy was champion, and Pride wasn't interested. He says if they called him today and wanted to discuss it, he'd be 100% cooperative.

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subgenius

Believe me, there are a ton of MMA fighters that would seriously get beat by Kurt Angle. And, there are other pro-wrestlers that could beat a lot of MMA fighters. But, what does that really say? MMA has a lot of lower level, unskilled, get beats just like in pro-wrestling. Also, MMA has weight classes. Pro-wrestling essentially is composed of only heavyweights (with some few exceptions).

You put the Sanchez we saw at KOTC (before TUF1 and his UFC fights) in with Matt Hughes and he will get mauled by Matt Hughes and the top elite fighters in the UFC or PRIDE FC. Now, Sanchez has learned a lot and come up the chain. He is becoming a serious threat. Most of the MMA fighters from TUF are lower level MMA fighters with little to no real future in the UFC or PRIDE FC. They are there now for show, but they will slowly dissolve away until only THE BEST of TUF's are left.

Kurt Angle would never fight Hughes, Franklin, or Liddell simply because THEY are not heavyweights. Angle is a 237 lbs. heavyweight. And, let's face it, there are only a few really good and talented HW's in the UFC. Fedor would crush Angle, as would any of the top five or top ten HW's in PRIDE FC. But, counting those out, Angle would do well against the lesser MMA fighters.

I bet Angle could beat Kimo Leopaldo. I bet he could beat Shamrock if he were to come up to HW. But, Angle would get beat my Tim Sylvia or AA, and maybe Monson or Pe de Pano or Brandon Vera...

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UFC_Legacy

I remain unconviced!

MMA fighters dedicate there lives to being able to finish off people in a instance. Pro-wrestlers dedicate there lives to training to take bumps do some flashy moves and be great on the mic. Kurts olympic days are long gone and he isnt the same wrestler the world saw when he first came on the scene. Sure Kurt could pick off a few of the weaker MMA fighters but he would have to round his game up to be able to beat middle ranked and higher MMA fighters. Look at Matt from TUF3 great wrestler sure but rock him with a punch and he gets scared. Has Kurt ever felt a true punch or kick or elbow or knee with enough force to put him on planet woooooo forever.
It takes some real mad thought to think some one who is not tested in MMA to say he would fare well. Sure if it was a wrestling match with submissions and no strikes allowed sure kurt would be ok but full contact MMA I see no evidence that can say he would be any good.

The key is Angle's job is performing not training for weeks to get into one fight where the cuts are that much deeper the punches that much harder and the only time you lie on the ground is if your knocked out.

the_nothing

Even with all the different arguments about this, I'd still like to see the fight.

subgenius

I could easily be wrong. We don't often see true top-level pro-wrestlers in any MMA fights. Even with Bigelow versus Kimo it was not really the best versus the best. In 1996, Kimo was a good MMA fighter, but FAR from being the best. He was not even well-rounded as a fighter. He just took Bigelow down with a double-leg takedown attempt that ended up with Kimo getting Bigelow's left ankle turned inward and the big man falling on his back. That was the end of that because Kimo was 250 lbs. of muscle coming down on top of Bigelow. Kimo just GnP'd Bamm Bamm.

But, there are some pro-wrestlers that have more going on than what some seem to think. Brett Hart was trained for real shoot fights (that is, REAL FIGHTS). All the Harts were, as was Chris Benoit. Kurt Angle also trained for shoot fights. They all do to some extent because some PPV fights go beyond being just staged. But, like I said, these are the top level pro-wrestlers. Most of them are there solely to make the other pro-wrestlers look good. Those pro-wrestlers are the get-beats that some of us here have seen.

Brock Lesner was also a NCAA/All-American champion, and he went through the WWE. He is now in AJPW/Inoki FC. He is soon to be headed into K-1 Heroes MMA fighting. He is not some chump. That guy is big, mean, and he does know MMA. A lot of pro-wrestlers are getting MMA training or have already had it simply because it looks good to be using the real stuff even if you are still faking it...

And, I am sorry, but there are a lot of lower-to-mid level MMA fighters that are not the super-athletes that a lot of people wish that they were. If they were super-men, then they would all be champions in some promotion. The hard fact is that only a small percentage of MMA fighters will win titles and achieve true greatness. There is not a hell of a lot of room at the top like many seem to believe.

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nazzyfan

Bret 'the Hitman' Hart and all the Hart brothers were raised in an MMA like environment. Even though they were a wrestling family, Stu Hart (Brets father) taught them all submissions as early as Bret can remember. Their basement was known as the dungeon, and in a documentary I saw: "Bret Hart: wrestling with shadows" Bret said that Stu would stretch them out using submission like holds. This is well before MMA as we know it. I'm sure that a younger Bret Hart would be able to make the jump from WWE to UFC without much problem.

ps. on a side note, Vince McMahon is scum for the way he treated Bret, not to mention what he made Owen do that eventually claimed Owens life.

Darton72

This is all hype guys, its like when Vince comes out and says Canada sucks or something to that extent.

Could Kurt hang? Probably. Could Chuck Knock Kurt out? You know it. But its not going to happen. Even if it did happen i read on this thread that Kurt might like it and leave the WWE and come over, come on he would never give up the money he is making to fight for the UFC and make less.

Also someone said that it was one thing to look like your in shape and being in shape, if i stated this wrong i am sorry, but any pro wrestler is in great shape (well maybe not Hogan anymore) alot of those wrestling matches last for well over 15 or 20 minutes of non stop going at it. Wrestlers do work out hard everyday. I am not a wrestling fan but i do respect those guys for what they go through. And as i said before this is nothing more then HYPE.

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subgenius

What I want to know is why you guys are hung up on the wrong MMA fighters in the wrong weight classes fighting against Kurt Angle. Chuck Liddell is the LWH champion, not the HW champion. Angle is a HW at 237 lbs. He would not be fighting against the LWH fighters in the UFC. And, I see only a few HW's in the UFC that would really be able to beat Kurt Angle: Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Pe de Pano, Brandon Vera, and maybe Paul Buentello or Jeff Monson. All the others would get beat by Angle.

If the UFC gave Kurt Angle the standard three fight deal, then Angle would do well. I bet he would go 2-1 (W-L). He would go against a low level HW and win. He would fight a middle level HW and win. Then they would toss him in with a top level HW and that's when Angle would lose. But, by the same token, most every UFC heavyweight would lose against Fedor, Mirko, Big Nog, and most of the other PRIDE FC top ten heavyweights.

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BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

angryjonny

Chuck steps on the scales at 205 but he is a lot bigger than you might think. I wouldn't be surprised if he walks around at about what Angle does.

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subgenius

That is true. I did not think of that. I was thinking that as the LHW champion he would not fight Angle as a HW. But, if Tito beats Shamrock and then (god forbid) beats Liddell, and that makes Liddell available, then yeah, it could happen. Chuck Liddell would shut Angle down and prevent any wrestling.

I think that we all agree that The Iceman would KO Angle.

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Darton72

I never said Chuck was going to fight Kurt, I am just going by the original post that claimed they would allow Liddell to accept. All I am saying is that it will never happen. As has been already stated WWE has nothing to lose but the UFC does.

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Krakatau

I will go ahead and admit a bias, I hate nearly everything about pro-'wrestling'.
That being said, I really can't see Angle doing well against 90% of the MMA fighters just popping up in my head with even a remotely comparable weight. The issue of weight class is of course completely irrelevant, a cross-promotion of this kind would be labeled a super-fight. The same goes for any of the other wrestlers of any size. Given a thirty pound window for basing matches, wrestlers always lose.

Just like the the allstars of professional T-Ball would lose in major league base ball.

subgenius

Professional T-Ball. Man, that is all fake. Pro T-Ball is scripted!

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angryjonny

Dude if I would have known t-ball has a pro league I would have stuck with it.

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