How was Evans v. Bonnar a draw?

SakuRules · 07-19-2006, 06:24 PM

Can anyone tell me how the Stephan Bonnar/Rashad Evans 3-round fight ended a draw? I know that I have seen in the UFC rules that, in each round, one fighter gets 10 points and the other gets 9 or less. This is not counting any points taken away due to fouls. Did anybody see the scoring card of the one judge that had it a draw? Did he score one of the rounds as a "10-8"?

AikaImmortal · 07-19-2006, 06:39 PM

You may have some good input here.. Full Contact Fighter magazine is running a feature on just the same thing in an upcoming issue.

-from Full Contact Fighter-
In light of recent controversial judging performances (the 29-29 score by judge Dalby Shirley in the Evans/Bonnar fight at Ultimate Fight Night comes to mind ... you know, the one where commentator Joe Rogan said that the judge who scored that fight a draw should be shot.), we wanted your thoughts on the officiating/judging process overall. Do you feel that fight officials are being properly trained? Do some states do better than others in the process of recruiting/training/licensing? Should judges and referees be required to take standardized training courses and tests that are specific to MMA officiating? Should judges/referees experienced in other sports like boxing and kickboxing be automatically licensed as MMA officials with little or no training in the new sport due to their pre-existing knowledge and experience in the other sports? Should officials be held accountable for bad calls (we already know how Joe Rogan would handle it, but what do YOU think should be the process for reviewing/handling bad judgments by officials)? After all, these calls affect fighters' livelihoods and careers. We'd like to hear your thoughts and ideas on the process as it exists today and how it might be improved upon. The results of the survey and some of the commentary we receive may appear in the upcoming issue of FCF.
http://members.aol.com/fcfighter/svy0607.htm

I already wrote but I think putting "he may have been off his meds or just cranky" wont make the cut

GSPALLTHEWAY · 07-19-2006, 07:34 PM

yea great points...
the good old myth of the 10 to 8 round... can anyone name some good examples of some clear 10 to 8 rounds... id have to say rich vs the crow had a couple, and i kinda think tito vs forrest round 1 was as well... just my opinion

SmashingMachine · 07-19-2006, 07:40 PM

I thought Rashad won a unanmious decision?

Bomber · 07-19-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmashingMachine

I thought Rashad won a unanmious decision?

No, it was a majority decision.
When two judges have one boxer winning the fight and the other one has it a tie, this is called a majority decision. When two judges have one boxer winning the fight and the other judge has the other boxer winning, this is called a split decision. When one judge gives his or her vote to one boxer, another one gives it to the other boxer, and the third judge calls it a tie, this is a draw. It is also a draw when two judges score the fight a tie, regardless of who the third judge scored the bout for.

I was surprised at the last part of this. If two judges call it a draw, the third judge doesn't matter.

sitnspin · 07-19-2006, 08:26 PM

I also don't recall it being a draw.

Big John McCarthy runs a one-day course for judges on how to score MMA. He has a couple of guys come in and spar/roll and simulate fights, while he talks about what's going on at each moment, when a fighter's in trouble and when it only looks that way, and what he as a ref is paying attention to throughout the fight. He shows videos of MMA events, the judges get to ask him and the fighters any questions they want, etc. It sounds like a totally great program, but the insane thing is that none of the state athletic commissions have made it mandatory yet.

Obviously they assign judges to events based on their perception of that judge's knowledge of MMA and experience, but that still doesn't mean we wind up with sound scoring at every fight.

It's also worth mentioning that pretty much every sport has judging that seems to come from planet yoohoo sometimes. Boxing, tennis, figure skating... any time it's left to a third party to score the event based on what he or she sees and his opinion of it, the outcome won't always be popular. How old is boxing, and you still see fights with ridiculous scoring on the part of the judges?

MMA seems to see this as a problem that needs to be fixed, but I don't know if it'll ever really go away.

SakuRules · 07-19-2006, 08:31 PM

My mistake on calling the fight a draw---I meant to ask how the one judge had it a draw. It was a majority decision.

SmashingMachine · 07-19-2006, 08:54 PM

ok, I'm with you now. Yeah, I don't see how even 1 judge could call it a draw either. That was as about lopsided as it gets. Of course, the judges ruled in favor for Bonnar against Jardine too, and Jardine dominated that fight. Probably some big Bonnar fans in the judges.

T-Bone · 07-20-2006, 10:36 AM

I think your question was answered by looking at Aika's photo.

No way it was a draw...that's just ridiculous.

subgenius · 07-20-2006, 11:59 AM

The initial wording implied the match outcome was a draw, but I think we all agree with what you meant. I also agreed with Joe Rogan about what to do with that judge that said it was a draw. Rogan also noted that THAT judge was a "boxing judge" that Rogan recognized from boxing matches. There have been shots fired betweem boxing and MMA (or specifically the UFC) about which sport is better and so forth and so on. I think that "boxing judge" was there to try to ruin the MMA fights with his stupid draw decision.

asronn · 07-20-2006, 09:31 PM

I will never undersand how you get to a draw...I have been watching fights from Boxing to kickboxing to MMA and I have never seen a draw. Its almost as if some judges are worried about the crowd instead of scoring the fight. Sometimes you see a great fight and hate to pick a winner but hey someone has got to lose. Am I the only one who feels this way?

WheresBobbySouthworth · 07-20-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asronn

I will never undersand how you get to a draw...I have been watching fights from Boxing to kickboxing to MMA and I have never seen a draw. Its almost as if some judges are worried about the crowd instead of scoring the fight. Sometimes you see a great fight and hate to pick a winner but hey someone has got to lose. Am I the only one who feels this way?

I can agree with that, but there's some fights you could argue neither really deserves to win, so a draw is logical. Sylvia vs Arlovski 3, neither really deserved a win. Tito vs Forrest, the more I think about it, neither really deserved it in the Win or Loss column.

SakuRules · 07-21-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asronn

I will never undersand how you get to a draw...I have been watching fights from Boxing to kickboxing to MMA and I have never seen a draw. Its almost as if some judges are worried about the crowd instead of scoring the fight. Sometimes you see a great fight and hate to pick a winner but hey someone has got to lose. Am I the only one who feels this way?

If you have a fight with an even number of rounds(such as 10 or 12), then it is easy to get a draw if one fighter wins half of the rounds and the other fighter wins the other half.

Harms · 07-22-2006, 12:14 PM

Could a judge score it 10-10? Or do UFC rules prohibit that?

AikaImmortal · 07-22-2006, 12:22 PM

10 point must system, round winner gets 10 with runner up getting 9 or less, so no.

LastExit34 · 07-22-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

Could a judge score it 10-10? Or do UFC rules prohibit that?

Yes....they could. But it doesn't happen very often. If a judge feels the round was a draw, with neither fighting having an edge, then the score for that round is 10-10.

Harms · 07-22-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LastExit34

Yes....they could. But it doesn't happen very often. If a judge feels the round was a draw, with neither fighting having an edge, then the score for that round is 10-10.

Do you think that is what happened cause I didn't think anyone deserved a
10-8 round in that fight. Evans had slams in everyround, but did basically nothing afterwards. Bonnar seemed like he wanted to do submissions while on the ground, but Evans LnP seemed to prevent it.

LastExit34 · 07-22-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

Do you think that is what happened cause I didn't think anyone deserved a
10-8 round in that fight. Evans had slams in everyround, but did basically nothing afterwards. Bonnar seemed like he wanted to do submissions while on the ground, but Evans LnP seemed to prevent it.

Yes...it had to happen. There is no other way to get a 29-29 score in a 3 round fight.

Flying Triangle Choke · 07-23-2006, 12:42 AM

I don't see which round could have possibly been scored that way.