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Old 09-12-2006, 04:02 PM   #121
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are you serious, it wasnt just like one slip up. he got dominated, he got pounded and when he is that possition which he does not like he, he looks completaly out of control which bj manipulated and fed hughes the leverage which gave him his back. it was sheer class ground work, surely that deseves respect, i hate the crap that people say about mistakes. it can be used for every fight.
Go ahead. Go to Vegas and bet that Hughes will make a mistake that Penn can capitalize upon. Bet the farm.

The fact remains: Penn has gone downhill since he beat Hughes, and Matt Hughes has only gotten better. Hughes will not repeat the mistake that led to Penn's win.

And, do not forget that Hughes has lost only ONE fight since February 2001. That loss was to Penn over two years ago. Only Dennis Hallman has ever beat Hughes twice... He could not do that to the Hughes we see today. Penn has 14 MMA fights, and has won ten. Hughes has over forty MMA fights, and has lost only four.

Penn is not winning this fight. This will be a warm-up fight for Hughes in preparation for the Hughes-GSP fight that must now be rescheduled.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:07 PM   #122
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BJ is the fastest blackbelt in BJJ ever. He won the BJJ world championship a week after getting his blackbelt. He "can punch" more effectively than anyone else at WW, and, while he has no kicks, his striking still turned GSP's face to hamburger, and GSP is the best striker in the WW division. Matt Hughes "made the mistake" of getting punched repeatedly in the face, then giving his back the P4P most dangerous JJ fighter in the world. That's a helluva mistake!
I think that is a joke. There are other strikers in WW that are just as good, if not better, at striking than Penn. The only way that Penn did any damage to GSP was due to the eye-poke. Remove that eye-poke and Penn gets beat badly.

And, GSP is a great fighter, but when he fought Hughes he made the same essential mistake that Hughes made against Penn. Any fighter can make a mistake. Penn's mistake is in thinking that he can KO everyone in the first round. He repeats that mistake all the time. Hughes, unlike Penn, has shown to learn from every mistake and not repeat them.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:09 PM   #123
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His grappling and wrestling is sub-standard.
Come on Sub you can do better than that.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:19 PM   #124
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records are not that accurate now everyone knows that, hughes fights well below his weight, and bj fights way above it, hughes is alot heavier than the blokes he fights so his strength and wrestling is usually enough. not against penn, hughes might win as hes a champ and can do great gnp, but where this confidence come from that he is going to destrop penn, the fight lasted just under 5 mins, and for all that time he got completely dominated, not just one mistake as you keep trying to point out, thats such a lame excuse.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:21 PM   #125
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anyway mistakes are made when pressure is put on and a fighter reacts to that pressure, hence the great tactics by the opposing fighter
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:28 PM   #126
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And, do not forget that Hughes has lost only ONE fight since February 2001. That loss was to Penn over two years ago. Only Dennis Hallman has ever beat Hughes twice... He could not do that to the Hughes we see today. Penn has 14 MMA fights, and has won ten. Hughes has over forty MMA fights, and has lost only four.
It'll be 44-5 in a few weeks...

In all seriousness, I think Hughes has a better chance of winning than Penn, but that doesn't mean that Penn can't beat him. Penn is very hit and miss. On a good night, he could sub Wanderlei Silva (possible exaggeration), on a bad night, he loses a decision. Hughes made no mistake when Penn beat him. He was simply out fought. Will it happen again? I can't say. This is not a fight I'm betting on. Penn is a tough SOB, and no amount of farm work or Miletiching by Hughes can stop that. The fact is, Penn can, and HAS out struck Hughes, Penn can, and HAS submitted Hughes, and Hughes has shown that he is at the top of his game and will not be easy to beat.

As for Hughes being a different fighter today, I'm sure that's what Pat tells him when he tucks him into bed each night.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:34 PM   #127
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Penn is tough, but his conditioning sucks. And, it's Penn's own damn fault that everyone he fights is bigger. I could care less about that. He signed the contracts to fight, so it's his own damn fault.

You guys make it sound like Hughes' record is padded with losers. That is just not the case. Just look at who Hughes has defeated since he lost to Penn. Then compare them to who Penn has fought. Penn is 3-2 since fighting Hughes. And, Hughes is 5-0 over better competition, IMO.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:45 PM   #128
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i never said he fought bums. penn is a bad match up for hughes, we all know bj can be hit and miss, but if he has a good day, i feel he will win comfortable again. then he can go up and take out rich in the middle. lol. like he said
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:46 PM   #129
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Penn is tough, but his conditioning sucks. And, it's Penn's own damn fault that everyone he fights is bigger. I could care less about that. He signed the contracts to fight, so it's his own damn fault.
The thing about Penn is, he can make beating someone 190# look as easy as beating someone 155#. And he can lose to someone 155# just the same as he can at 170. It all depends on which BJ shows up and if he can end the fight quickly.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:50 PM   #130
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I like BJ, and think it would be great if he wins, but he wouldn't make a good champ, and won't hold the belt for long. I think Matt Hughes is a better champ that Penn would be, and it will make predicting future fights less confusing to be able to say Hughes > GSP > Penn. However, nothing in life is that certain.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:52 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by subgenius
Penn is 3-2 since fighting Hughes.
But you have to take into consideration that he was fighting natural MWs and possible LHWs and still went 2-1 with his lone loss being a decision against the guy that KOed Rich Franklin.

I don't think he is not going to dominate Matt Hughes this time around or vice versa,but BJ is just all around better.

Matt has the heart of a champion though.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:56 PM   #132
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But you have to take into consideration that he was fighting natural MWs and possible LHWs and still went 2-1 with his lone loss being a decision against the guy that KOed Rich Franklin.

I don't think he is not going to dominate Matt Hughes this time around or vice versa,but BJ is just all around better.

Matt has the heart of a champion though.
Penn signed for those fights. He risked the losses, but it was his decision. And, saying that Penn is "all around better" seems ridiculous -- sorry. Penn has one hope to win. He has to get Hughes to fall prey to his BJJ. The stand-up fight may be in Penn's advantage, but he will not KO Hughes in the first round.

I predict a fight that will go like this: 1st round is a tough fight that leaves Penn exhausted and Hughes in great shape. In round two, Penn loses due to being in poor condition. It will likely end with Penn being submitted.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:57 PM   #133
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But you have to take into consideration that he was fighting natural MWs and possible LHWs and still went 2-1 with his lone loss being a decision against the guy that KOed Rich Franklin.
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exactly, id like to see hughes fight at middle weight, and rich at lhw, chuck at hw, more fighters should be chalenging themselves like penn
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:57 PM   #134
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The thing about Penn is, he can make beating someone 190# look as easy as beating someone 155#. And he can lose to someone 155# just the same as he can at 170. It all depends on which BJ shows up and if he can end the fight quickly.
What decent fighter has he beat that weighs 190 lbs.???? Just wondering because the answer is zero. Matt took a junk shot got caught off balance because BJ side stepped and the rest is history.

I would think that Hughes will clinch with BJ put him against the fence and take him down. And from there beat the hell out of him. Like Hughes said before he fought Royce, he is constantly in competition with people that are better than him.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:00 PM   #135
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exactly, id like to see hughes fight at middle weight, and rich at lhw, chuck at hw, more fighters should be chalenging themselves like penn
No, Penn went about it foolishly. He took on fights that he should have not taken. His whole excuse for leaving the UFC was to face better fighters, and then he goes to K-1 MMA and fights guys that are not up to par or were way out of Penn's weight class (Lyoto). Penn is not the best fight manager. He makes foolish decisions.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:00 PM   #136
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What decent fighter has he beat that weighs 190 lbs.????
Umm...Matt Hughes?
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #137
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Umm...Matt Hughes?
Penn beat Hughes in a WW fight, not a MW, LHW, or HW fight.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #138
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This is the article but I don't know why it didn't work.

You just don’t run into many people like BJ Penn. Most athletes of similar talent or accomplishment typecast themselves as either gratingly arrogant or so humble as to seem, disingenuous. But the 27 year old former UFC welterweight champion fits no mold, and when he speaks it’s often with a blend of graciousness and outspoken self confidence. BJ is equally sincere in complimenting opponents as he is when he says he can clean out multiple weight divisions.

If ever there was a time to hear what BJ Penn has to say it’s now. In three week’s time, he will face Matt Hughes for the UFC welterweight title in Anaheim California. Penn is serving as a short-notice replacement for the man he lost to via split-decision last March in a number one contender’s fight for Hughe’s title, Georges St. Pierre after St. Pierre pulled out of his scheduled fight with Hughes on because of a groin injury.

Penn doesn’t relish that his opportunity is coming at the expense of St. Pierre, a man whom he has a lot of respect for.

“I feel bad for Georges, it’s true that he worked his way back from the bottom (to get another title shot against Hughes). But he made the right choice. It doesn’t make sense to take a fight like that unless you can be one hundred percent. But right now, I can only think about one man and that’s the greatest welterweight of all time, Matt Hughes” says Penn.

There it is. Respect for more than one opponent in a single statement. But without intending to be callous to St. Pierre’s unfortunate circumstances, a Penn/Hughes fight may have a bit more drama to it anyway. When Penn and Hughes meet on September 23rd, it will be for the second time.

The first time, January 31st, Penn was moving up from the lightweight division to face Hughes, the dominant 170lbs UFC champion. In the lead-up to the fight, Hughes talked about feeling disrespected that a fighter from a lighter division was challenging him. Penn, for his part, was largely in “aw, shucks” mode, saying he didn’t mean any disrespect.

Before anyone expected it, however, Penn took the longest running welterweight champion in the UFC’s young history down, choked him out, kissed him on the lips and walked away with his belt in less time than a normal jiu-jitsu class sparring session lasts.

Some people call it dominance on the part of Penn, and others call it a fluke win, refusing to believe that the powerful Hughes was at his best that night. Whatever the case, a lot can be proved in their second fight.

Despite his prior win over Hughes, Penn is nearly a 2-1 odds underdog at this point, and he has said that he is sure Hughes will be underestimating him based on his last fight against St. Pierre where Penn seemed to lose steam after the first round.

Speaking over the phone this week with InsideFighting, Penn himself doesn’t seem impressed with his recent performances.

“Even if you go back 4 fights against Rodrigo (Gracie), I was lackadaisical. I’ve been letting people push me on the fence, defending takedowns. Now I may be good at that, but BJ Penn is best when he is attacking” he says.

After winning the welterweight title in 2004, Penn and the UFC were estranged from each other and often entangled with one another legally, over contract disputes for some time. When Penn returned to the organization this past year, his first fight was with St. Pierre.

Speaking of this, Penn adds, “If I would have come back and fought Hughes right away and fought the way I did I would have gotten hurt” he says.

Let’s be fair, in fighting Rodrigo Gracie, a fight which Penn won, Penn was moving up to a third weight class against an at the time undefeated opponent, and his loss to St. Pierre was a close one where St. Pierre sustained much more damage than Penn did.

But Penn is honest, and he feels that many adjustments need to be made if he is to regain his championship status. One of the areas that is undergoing a lot of change is his training.

“I’m training damn hard, but I’m training different. I’m so happy. I’m not going to try and be a pro athlete, peak at the right time and do all of these things” says Penn who has said in prior interviews that he felt burnt out and unhappy in previous fights after long and arduous training camps.

“It’s (the burn out) both physical and mental. You get injured, you get hurt, and you have non productive workouts. All that sparring you do is just two people beating each other up, and I should be getting paid to do that” Penn laughs.

Penn says he’s going back to basics, in terms of his mindset and preparation for the Hughes fight.

“Either you’re a fighter or you’re not. If I have to fight to the death tonight, then I fight to the death. The idea is just to show up, kick’s someone’s ass and go home” Penn explains.



Penn believes that he will be in top form against Hughes on September 23rd just as he was in 2004 when he upset Hughes for the UFC welterweight title



“Sometimes you evolve away from your game and you have to come back to it. Look at Dan Henderson in his last fight” says Penn speaking of Henderson’s decision loss to Kazuo Misaki in the most recent round of Pride’s 183lbs tournament.

“He (Henderson) is one of the best fighters ever because he is good at what he does. But in his last fight he just kind of kick boxed.”

Penn feels that has had similar difficulties staying true to his style recently, but says he has learned his lesson.

“I feel like I have so many tools, that I don’t know which game plan to bring in sometimes, but now I have a pretty good idea” says Penn.

And where Penn was unimpressed with himself in recent outings, he is optimistic about how he will fare from here on out. When asked if he indeed feels that he has champion Hughes’ number as he has said before, Penn sees his statement and raises it 20.

“Honestly, after this last fight (with St. Pierre) where I realized that I am the best striker, that none of these guys can hurt me, I feel that I’ve got everybody’s number” he says.

Penn fights professionally in order to challenge himself, and as usual, he has a plan in place for not only winning the welterweight title back, but on what to do afterwards.

“Before” says Penn of the time in between his loss to St. Pierre in March and when he got the chance to replace him, “I was dealing with the scenario of if I won 2-3 fights I’d be getting a title shot, and I was so excited to do that. But now, if I win 2-3 fights the whole division is gone” says Penn.

“That’s how I go on and motivate myself. I want to get it (the welterweight title) back again, defend it three times and look for other things. Maybe Hughes doesn’t have goals anymore, but that’s what my goals are.


“I want to beat the best welterweight twice and defend it 3 times then see what’s going on at 155lbs and see what’s going on at 185lbs” Penn goes on.

One sees “what’s going on” when wanting to hang out with friends or after hearing a loud noise. Penn’s unassuming phrasing of the most ambitious goals is remarkable.

Penn seems to view the mixed martial arts landscape as open pages of history where he must inscribe his name indelibly. His ostentatious goals set at no lower standard than to have his accomplishment of them make him the best fighter ever.

How then, with such long-term ambition, can Penn not be overlooking the next fight in front of him, which would surely be a mistake? Because the next fight is the first step and Penn realizes that all legacies begin at square one.

“The best things about fighting are walking in and coming back. That’s where I’m at, I’m coming back, and it’s the best place to be” says Penn.

“I’ve come full circle, back to who I am. My punching power, my takedowns, my jiu-jitsu, my tenacity; Matt Hughes and anyone else is going to have to deal with that when they fight me.”


What are your thoughts? elias@insidefighting.com
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:05 PM   #139
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Penn beat Hughes in a WW fight, not a MW, LHW, or HW fight.
Matt weighs 170 at weigh-in, but he's back to 185-195 by competition. Tadd, you're a wrestler, you should know all about cutting weight and rehydrating.
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Old 09-12-2006, 05:09 PM   #140
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Matt weighs 170 at weigh-in, but he's back to 185-195 by competition. Tadd, you're a wrestler, you should know all about cutting weight and rehydrating.
That is the fault of the UFC. They weighin the night before. So, that makes it a WW fight whether you think so or like it or not. Sorry, but that is how it goes.
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