GSP out Penn in!

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 05:11 PM

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Matt took a junk shot got caught off balance because BJ side stepped and the rest is history.

Are there multiple versions of these fights? BJ beat Hughes around the ring, got him on the ground, and submitted him when Matt gave up his back. It wasn't one lucky punch, or even a lucky combo. He outstruck him over, and over, and over again.

Its the same with the GSP/Hughes fight. Everyone always says how GSP was winning the fight. He landed one good spinning back kick that had Hughes hurting, and Hughes took him down immediately and submitted him.

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 05:14 PM

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That is the fault of the UFC. They weighin the night before. So, that makes it a WW fight whether you think so or like it or not. Sorry, but that is how it goes.

I'm not picking on you (anymore) quit being so damn defensive. I never said the fight was at MW or LHW. I just said Hughes weighed 190. And he did. Case closed, sorry.

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 05:23 PM

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That is the fault of the UFC. They weighin the night before. So, that makes it a WW fight whether you think so or like it or not. Sorry, but that is how it goes.

Further, I don't consider this a fault. Matt Hughes could never be competitive fighting at LHW, and no one would even know who Rich Franklin is if he had to fight at his natural weight of 210.

Bomber · 09-12-2006, 05:30 PM

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Originally Posted by w0264007

Matt Hughes could never be competitive fighting at LHW, and no one would even know who Rich Franklin is if he had to fight at his natural weight of 210.

You're taking it too far. Franklin would fight at 205. He said he drops to 200 for two weeks before the fight, then cuts to 185 for the weigh-in. Hughes could comfortably fight at 185 with a same-day weigh-in. I'd like to see the massive cutting halted.

I assume Pride uses the same format, weigh-in the day before?

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 05:34 PM

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I assume Pride uses the same format, weigh-in the day before?

I'm pretty sure they do.

subgenius · 09-12-2006, 06:39 PM

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Originally Posted by w0264007

I'm not picking on you (anymore) quit being so damn defensive. I never said the fight was at MW or LHW. I just said Hughes weighed 190. And he did. Case closed, sorry.

I'm immune to being picked on -- seriously. And, you cannot produce ANY evidence or proof for what Matt Hughes weighed (outside of anecdotal comments from Rogaine and Oldberg) during his fights. There are no pre-match, unofficial weigh-ins before a match. We all assume that Hughes is heavier because he looks physically larger than his opponents. But, no one can prove that Hughes puts on 20-30 pounds overnight.

Sorry, but that case is not only NOT closed, it never will be closed. Until they specify or reveal weight minutes before a match, then we cannot truly know for a fact who weighs what. Hughes may have been 190. He might very well have been 187 or 180 or 179 or 172. We don't know for a fact about any of this...

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 06:48 PM

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Sorry, but that case is not only NOT closed, it never will be closed. Until they specify or reveal weight minutes before a match, then we cannot truly know for a fact who weighs what. Hughes may have been 190. He might very well have been 187 or 180 or 179 oe 172. We don't know for a fact about any of this...

If I were tech savvy, I'd have a smiley face rolling its eyes at that comment.

If he weighed 190 before cutting water weight, then rehydrated, he'll weigh close to 190 when he's done. He very well could have weighed 185. But if you are going to split hairs like that, see rolling eyes reply.

PghPens71 · 09-12-2006, 07:31 PM

let me chime in on this debate:
BJ is gonna beat matt's anus -- agaiin and then flick off the corner and call out Sylvia so that BJ can get his heavweight title next before derailing gsp
...... - again.

Jras0001 · 09-12-2006, 10:08 PM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

Sorry, but that case is not only NOT closed, it never will be closed. Until they specify or reveal weight minutes before a match, then we cannot truly know for a fact who weighs what. Hughes may have been 190. He might very well have been 187 or 180 or 179 or 172. We don't know for a fact about any of this...

Im not gonna say I know anything about what Hughes did or didnt weigh when he faught but on a similar note....when Riggs weighed in several fights ago at 170, he weighed himself again right before the fight and he weighed in at 202. They were talking about how much weight he had put back on overnight and what not. Im sorry, I dont know what UFC event it was or Id say but I remember the comments being made by Rogen and Goldburg. I thought that was a pretty significant weight fluctuation before a match. Couldnt have been healthy for him.

subgenius · 09-12-2006, 10:18 PM

Thirty pounds of water weight? In a single night? If I were more knowledgeable about water weight, I think that I might debate that point. I know it can be extreme, but this sounds a bit Sci-Fi to me for some reason. I think that Matt Hughes just eats a country breakfast on the Saturday of a fight and that is how he gains his weight back.

I had heard that most fighters do not eat anything during the twelve hours leading up to fight time. That having food in your stomach and intestines during a fight can cause some problems if you recieve numerous body shots. You definately do not want to toss cookies in a match after a reverse spin kick from GSP to your gutty works.

w0264007 · 09-12-2006, 10:51 PM

If you get the DVD's for the events, it shows the fighters making weight in the bonus features. Franklin discusses going from 210 to 195, to 185 for the weigh-in. He even admits that it is not healthy, but that he only has to do it three or four times a year so its not so bad. Experienced wrestlers cut MASSIVE amounts of water weight, then rehydrate slowly after weigh in. If they sweat out 20-30 pounds of water, (the human body is about 50% water) then they drink gallons of water after the weigh-in. They would be unable to fight completely dehydrated.

Jras0001 · 09-13-2006, 03:08 PM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

Thirty pounds of water weight? In a single night? If I were more knowledgeable about water weight, I think that I might debate that point. I know it can be extreme, but this sounds a bit Sci-Fi to me for some reason. I think that Matt Hughes just eats a country breakfast on the Saturday of a fight and that is how he gains his weight back.

I had heard that most fighters do not eat anything during the twelve hours leading up to fight time. That having food in your stomach and intestines during a fight can cause some problems if you recieve numerous body shots. You definately do not want to toss cookies in a match after a reverse spin kick from GSP to your gutty works.

Well, since I wasnt there, I couldnt sit here and say "yes, its all true." I have heard of that sort of weight gain before and I recall them takling about it with Riggs in that one fight. Wheather or not it was that much, who knows but those that were there...but if you saw Riggs in the weigh in, he looked like a dried up cancer patient and then the next night at the fight, he looked more himself.

subgenius · 09-15-2006, 02:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Jras0001

Well, since I wasnt there, I couldnt sit here and say "yes, its all true." I have heard of that sort of weight gain before and I recall them takling about it with Riggs in that one fight. Wheather or not it was that much, who knows but those that were there...but if you saw Riggs in the weigh in, he looked like a dried up cancer patient and then the next night at the fight, he looked more himself.

Yeah, now that you mention it, you could be correct. At the Hughes-Riggs fight weigh-ins, Riggs was mad because they said he was over 170 when the scale needed to be properly calibrated. Riggs drank a water bottle and he gained like a pound. I think that in the UFC a fighter can go up to like 170.9 before being considered to have failed the weigh-in. Riggs was lower than 170.9 before the scale debacle. He later weighed-in at like 171.8 or some such.

GSPALLTHEWAY · 09-15-2006, 03:18 PM

i believe it is 171.4 to count... and actually he ran and went to the sauna then he came back and was 1.5 pounds more... so who knows?

Curly · 09-15-2006, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by SmashingMachine

I think Matt will Steam Roll BJ Penn this time around.

Yep, thats how I see it going. Matt is WAY too strong and skilled.

Curly · 09-15-2006, 04:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Gooner

The difference between me and you is, I have an IQ higher than George Dubya.

Curly · 09-15-2006, 05:17 PM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

I had heard that most fighters do not eat anything during the twelve hours leading up to fight time. That having food in your stomach and intestines during a fight can cause some problems if you recieve numerous body shots.

When I was fighting I would eat lightly the day of the fight and not at all for 4 hours before the fight. Matt is a wrestler, he is a master of cutting pounds and putting the water back on fast. Tito also uses this to his advantage.

Jras0001 · 09-16-2006, 12:34 AM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

Yeah, now that you mention it, you could be correct. At the Hughes-Riggs fight weigh-ins, Riggs was mad because they said he was over 170 when the scale needed to be properly calibrated. Riggs drank a water bottle and he gained like a pound. I think that in the UFC a fighter can go up to like 170.9 before being considered to have failed the weigh-in. Riggs was lower than 170.9 before the scale debacle. He later weighed-in at like 171.8 or some such.

Ya, I think Ive read in several places that a fighter can weigh in as much as 1 pound over the weight limit and still be considered good to go. This is supposed to compensate for any type of mechanical irregularities with the scale. If Riggs was over 171.0, then he would have been considered overweight. I remember reading that he just barely missed his limit in the Hughes fight. I have wondered if he had made weight, would he have performed better. I can imagine he was really let down that it wasnt a title fight due to him missing weight and I bet that played a part in his less than enthusiastic performance in that fight.

arwoodco · 09-18-2006, 04:00 AM

Well, it is OBVIOUS this is going to be a good fight.. We have people on all sides now..

This is going to be the best fight this year..

I am thinking its going to be much longer this time than last..

I can see it going either way.. Before I said Penn for the win, but it could easily be Hughes.. They are both exceptional fighters..

AND what is this about Penn being lucky Mr. SubGenious.. Come on..

Penn has a unique limberness, which plays in really well with BJJ.. Think about it.. If you can bend your leg around your head like a pretzel, you would be able to do some UNIQUE moves that others can not do ..

That is what makes him unique.. His speed, strikes and his limberness makes him able to to moves others can not easily do..

How do you prepare for that? Find another BJ Penn?

Tony

imdahman · 09-18-2006, 10:07 AM

Joe Rogan also makes a reference to Penn's uncanny limberness in his fight with GSP. Basically he said he once saw him just sitting down, then be able to bend his leg to where his foot was behind his head... without the use of his hands! I don't care where you're from, that's just crazy right there.

You actually do see an example of this in the same fight and they do a slowmo recap of a move where BJ literally lifts his leg to about his head w/o his hands and Joe is talking over the replay and commenting again how limber Penn is.