Liddel: Not a great champ...yet

gilitine · 08-27-2006, 12:34 PM

Wassup guys. First of all, I give Liddell props for what he has done in the UFC. With that being said, I don't think he is a great champ...yet. He's defended the belt 3 times, which is good. But to be a great champ you have to defend it about 4-5 times. Matt defended his belt 6 times the first time and 1 the second time (Riggs and Gracie weren't title defenses). Tito defended it 6 times, also. I think they are great champs. IMO Chuck needs to successfully defend the title one more time to be a great champ. What do you guys think.

subgenius · 08-27-2006, 12:40 PM

I agree. He does need more title defenses to make himself a truly great champion. But, Liddell has dominated his opponents so well that he has risen to the level of greatness. Like with Tyson. Everyone thought Mike Tyson was the next Ali. Then along came Buster Douglas and a 10th round KO later and Tyson is history (at least until he bit Holyfield's ear off). Is there a "Buster" out there for Chuck Liddell? Is Tito Ortiz really a true threat to Liddell?

jxl301 · 08-27-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I agree. He does need more title defenses to make himself a truly great champion. But, Liddell has dominated his opponents so well that he has risen to the level of greatness. Like with Tyson. Everyone thought Mike Tyson was the next Ali. Then along came Buster Douglas and a 10th round KO later and Tyson is history (at least until he bit Holyfield's ear off). Is there a "Buster" out there for Chuck Liddell? Is Tito Ortiz really a true threat to Liddell?

Your 3rd sentence is pretty much how I feel. He dominates everyone he faces so well that I would definitely put him on a pedestal of greatness if he were to beat Silva. If he can do that, he has ALL of my respect. Then again, Silva could very well be Chuck's "buster". That would be an awesome fight and like Chuck stated "it will last just 1 rd"... and I believe him. I think Tito is a threat to Chuck. I actually think Tito has a very good chance at getting that belt back. I just hope that all this exposure hasn't corrupted him mentally as a fighter... especially when you're tapping Jenna Jameson lol...

Jagular · 08-27-2006, 01:01 PM

Liddell is a such dominant champion and we're struggling to think of anyone who can beat him. He's beaten, and soundly, everyone in his weight class, including the folks who beat him early in his career. I'm thinking he can be called a great champ.

Bomber · 08-27-2006, 01:07 PM

I really, really want to see Chuch vs Tito II. Only then will it be clear to EVERYONE how far superior Chuck is, compared to Tito.

Grave · 08-27-2006, 01:10 PM

Oh please. How dominent does a guy have to be in his weightclass before you guys consider him "Great"?

Liddell is definitly a GREAT champion. I don't think there is anyone left in the LHW-division that can take him out. He's just *THAT* good.

Dana needs to open the UFC wallet and start bringing in new, formidable competition. Or else Chuck will remain undefeated for a LOOOOONG time.

Grave · 08-27-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

I really, really want to see Chuch vs Tito II. Only then will it be clear to EVERYONE how far superior Chuck is, compared to Tito.

Tito is good but lets be realistic, he does'ent stand a chance in hell. To make matters worse tito's skills are getting a little rusty as well, by taking all these easier fights lately.

When it comes time for him to face chuck, he'll be tottally overwelmed like babalu was.

DirtyChuckRulz! · 08-27-2006, 01:21 PM

Chuck has to be considered a great champ. he would have had the belt longer if Tito would have fought him sooner. look at the caliber of fighters he has defeated. he also has more wins in the UFC than anyone else. will one more win really make that big of a difference?

Grave · 08-27-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyChuckRulz!

Chuck has to be considered a great champ. he would have had the belt longer if Tito would have fought him sooner. look at the caliber of fighters he has defeated. he also has more wins in the UFC than anyone else. will one more win really make that big of a difference?

I guess its like the case of Diego Sanchez, no matter how many good wins he's had. Some will always look at him a "cocky TUF1 Rookie" who's yet to prove himself.

If Chuck's still not considered a "Great" fighter, then name someone else in the UFC who is BETTER than chuck then... they couldn't.

Greenman · 08-27-2006, 01:25 PM

Chuck is damn good thats for sure, I do think (still) that Babalu had a very legitimate chance to beat Chuck. He just lost his mind for 95 seconds. I am sure that wasn't in his game plan, it was a poor performance on Renato's side, Chuck just took advantage of that.

Grave · 08-27-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenman

Chuck is damn good thats for sure, I do think (still) that Babalu had a very legitimate chance to beat Chuck. He just lost his mind for 95 seconds. I am sure that wasn't in his game plan, it was a poor performance on Renato's side, Chuck just took advantage of that.

But thats all part of why chuck is a GREAT champion. He keeps his cool, Sharp, Focused, state of mind. In situations where other fighters(like babalu), would lose theirs and make crucial mistakes.

Harms · 08-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilitine

Wassup guys. First of all, I give Liddell props for what he has done in the UFC. With that being said, I don't think he is a great champ...yet. He's defended the belt 3 times, which is good. But to be a great champ you have to defend it about 4-5 times. Matt defended his belt 6 times the first time and 1 the second time (Riggs and Gracie weren't title defenses). Tito defended it 6 times, also. I think they are great champs. IMO Chuck needs to successfully defend the title one more time to be a great champ. What do you guys think.

I tend to agree. I'm not taking anything away from Chuck. He is one of the elite fighters in MMA and a great fighter. I don't think gilitine is saying he is a bad fighter or even a bad champ. It is just that he has only 3 title defenses. 2 more dominate title defenses he should and will be considered one of the great champions.

jxl301 · 08-27-2006, 02:00 PM

In terms of what? If you mean in terms of striking I'd agree. What else though? Tito is younger, better conditioning, better ground game and physically more impressive. I really can't think of anything, besides the striking and the ability to take a punch, where Chuck would have an overwhelming advantage. Tito, I feel, is hungry right now. While Chuck could win a fight with Tito easily with one punch, Tito can take Chuck down and pound him out with elbows. It's all up to Tito. He needs to decide which Tito is coming into this possible fight. A focused Tito? Or a Tito blinded by Jenna and MMA stardom?

sitnspin · 08-27-2006, 02:31 PM

When Chuck and Tito get it on again, every point I have will go on Chuck. He doesn't disrespect other fighters, but he says very plainly that Tito is all talk and he's afraid to fight him. It took a LOT of work to get Tito to finally man up and fight Chuck last time after all of his excuses ran out, and he could very easily have turned down a third Shamrock fight (he's beaten him soundly twice -- there's nothing left to prove and Ken's not a threat) and said "You promised me a title shot as my third fight. Make it happen." But no -- he's all over THE FINAL CONFLICT, and you can say it's because the fans are demanding it, but that's crap. I don't know anyone who wants to see Tito fight Shamrock more than they want to see him fight Liddell. It's an easy fight, so that's Tito's pick.

Babalu was potentially a much tougher fight for Chuck than Tito is. Chuck's already got Tito beaten psychologically, and I feel confident that their next fight won't be much different than their first one.

bayouboy · 08-27-2006, 03:16 PM

I completely agree. I continued to watch the weigh-ins in the other day to hear the "big announcement." How disappointing to hear the announcement was that ortiz and shamrock would be fighting AGAIN. Everyone only wants to see him fight liddell. Was he (Ortiz) acting happy after the fight last night because he wanted us to think he couldn't wait to now fight Chuck? Please. We should be watching them in Nov./Dec. but now we have to wait until next year so he can settle the score with Shamrock. Like anybody really cares.

SmashingMachine · 08-27-2006, 03:36 PM

I think Chuck needs to avenge the loss to Rampage and beat Silva too...and not necessairly in that order either. He wins those two, and there'll be no question of who number one is.

kane · 08-27-2006, 03:41 PM

I really don't see anybody beating chuck soon. All he needs is one grazing punch to land on someone and it's over. Or the shot stuns them enough then he lets his hands go and it's over. I have never seen someone with the power of chuck to be able to knock guys out while moving backwards. It was funny to see him try to take alistar down.

Bomber · 08-27-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jxl301

In terms of what? If you mean in terms of striking I'd agree. What else though?

Tito can't take Chuck down. Even if he somehow manages to get Chuck to the ground, he can't keep him there, because Chuck is a better wrestler. On their feet, it's mission accomplished, Chuck KO's Tito. Just like last time. The only thing that's changed since their last fight is that Chuck has gotten way better.

jonnyboyee · 08-27-2006, 03:49 PM

maybe it is someone in another weight class to have chucks number and could very well be rich franklin even randy thinks in near future they will have a bout and he has faith in franklin

Ryduce · 08-27-2006, 03:56 PM

I think I'd rather watch paint dry then watch Chuck Liddell fight.