Eye Poke? You Decide

Bomber · 09-28-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

I'm sorry, but that is just stupid.

1. Do you know how hard it is to land a thumb in the eye even if he tried that? He only tried to land a punch, which he did, and the thumb did not hit the eye.

2. Why the hell would BJ go for a eye poke in that situation, he was picking Hughes apart ffs.

3. IF he would have indeed gone temporarily insane, do you think he would...
-first eye-poke Hughes intentionally,
-then NOT continue and jump on him, and go for the finish (like Chuck did against Tito),
-but instead back away immediately and give Hughes (who he was beating, mind you) time to recover?

To add to your excellent points, I don't think BJ was even looking at Hughes in order to be able to aim for his eye. He was ducking when the hand went up.

jmag · 09-28-2006, 11:09 AM

I guess it was a little of his kung fu training, the tiger claw.

subgenius · 09-28-2006, 11:21 AM

I don't think anyone can say there was no eye-poke there. That camera shot is not that good, but it seems clear that the thumb or the left hand index finger strikes Matt Hughes in the eye and drags down Hughes' right cheek. The impact on Hughes' head is very clear.

That clip shows how fighters often throw flailing punches as counters. Look again, and I think you can see that, in the combo that Hughes' is throwing at Penn, Hughes nearly eye-poked Penn. He does an open-handed thrust with his left hand. A little lower and Hughes may have jammed his thumb in Penn's eye. But, that first right punch that missed shows Hughes with his thumb tucked. That would have been a good strike had he connected.

That is what bugs me about Penn and his eye-pokes, he tends to flail with a punch that has a thumb extended. It is always to the face. And, that is the biggest reason that eye-pokes happen. Liddell does not eye-poke in every fight. I don't think Vitor does either. But, when a fighter has an eye-poke in consecutive matches, then something needs to be addressed.

Gooner · 09-28-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

That is what bugs me about Penn and his eye-pokes, he tends to flail with a punch that has a thumb extended. It is always to the face. And, that is the biggest reason that eye-pokes happen. Liddell does not eye-poke in every fight. I don't think Vitor does either. But, when a fighter has an eye-poke in consecutive matches, then something needs to be addressed.

Haha, sub. You're fun. This was a bait wasn't it? I don't care, I'll take it and reply with some propaganda of my own...

Let's go over ALL 6 matches Chuck has had since his loss to Rampage...
UFC 47: Tito Ortiz clearly gets something in his eye before Chuck begins his barrage, which ends the fight.
UFC 49: Vernon White claims to have gotten eye-poked.
UFC 52: Randy Couture. Clearly eye-poked.
UFC 54: Jeremy Horn has to throw in the towel, as he "sees everything double". Clearly his eyes have taken punishment in the fight.
And here's a picture from UFC 57: Liddell-Couture III

Oh, and then there was a fight with Babalu I heard. I guess he didn't need the ol' poke in that fight.

---------------------

Seems to me, that after Rampage beat Chuck, the Iceman changed his gameplan and started using the mighty poke to win fights.
He's also changed his nickname, but no-one's noticed.

Chuck, the eyes-man, Liddell.

Snow Patrol · 09-28-2006, 12:35 PM

He knocks people out with punches like that? Fingers must be mighty strong.

OneBigThrow · 09-28-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

That camera shot is not that good, but it seems clear that the thumb or the left hand index finger strikes Matt Hughes in the eye

ummm hmmm that makes no sense buddy

Dirty Fighter · 09-28-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Chuck, the eyes-man, Liddell.

LMAO. Classic.

subgenius · 09-28-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

ummm hmmm that makes no sense buddy

Well, look at the other eye-poke pic with Couture-Liddell a few posts above ours. That is a better angle. I also was talking about the camera angle not allowing us to see specifically what Penn's eyes are looking at while he is dodgeing that two-punch combo from Hughes (one punch, one thrust open-hand -- what is that, a palm-thrust?). Maybe I'm wrong about what caused the various eye-pokes, but I am mostly speaking of Penn.

subgenius · 09-28-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Haha, sub. You're fun. This was a bait wasn't it? I don't care, I'll take it and reply with some propaganda of my own...

Let's go over ALL 6 matches Chuck has had since his loss to Rampage...
UFC 47: Tito Ortiz clearly gets something in his eye before Chuck begins his barrage, which ends the fight.
UFC 49: Vernon White claims to have gotten eye-poked.
UFC 52: Randy Couture. Clearly eye-poked.
UFC 54: Jeremy Horn has to throw in the towel, as he "sees everything double". Clearly his eyes have taken punishment in the fight.
And here's a picture from UFC 57: Liddell-Couture III

Oh, and then there was a fight with Babalu I heard. I guess he didn't need the ol' poke in that fight.

---------------------
Seems to me, that after Rampage beat Chuck, the Iceman changed his gameplan and started using the mighty poke to win fights.
He's also changed his nickname, but no-one's noticed.

Chuck, the eyes-man, Liddell.

Those are all good complaints. I think that Liddell (an anyone that does eye-poke the opponent regardless of intent--same for shots to the twig and berries) needs to be sanctioned by having a point deducted. If it is part of the fight game naturally, then make the point deduction naturally a part of the game as well.

Also, other offences include Penn grabbing the fence as well as other fighters doing that (Kendal Grove was warned numerous times, IIRC). And, I seem to recall someone being warned by a ref to not grab the opponent's shorts. All should be a point deduction (possibly immediately, or at least after the first warning in some cases).

Horn is the exception, however, as I think it was clear that he was not so much eye-poked as just hit so many times in the head by legitamet punches that he simply could no longer see. I recall that match, and Horn verbally tapped-out to the referee when he said, "I can't see..."

GSPALLTHEWAY · 09-28-2006, 02:08 PM

oh who cares, its fighting, eye pokes are gonna happen no matter what.. BJ had NO intent there, he wasnt even looking.... all you can do if its intentional is to take off a point.... its not close to be there though... in that case its not even an issue, hughes obviously got poked, it was an accident, thats about it

subgenius · 09-28-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPalltheway

oh who cares, its fighting, eye pokes are gonna happen no matter what.. BJ had NO intent there, he wasnt even looking.... all you can do if its intentional is to take off a point.... its not close to be there though... in that case its not even an issue, hughes obviously got poked, it was an accident, thats about it

That is a good point. The angle I see Penn's head is turned away from the camer and we see his back mostly. It is hard to say he could or could not see what he was aiming at directly or from the corner of his eye so to speak. He was definately countering punches.

Curly · 09-28-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fight2night

The more and more I look at it, the more I see Penn's hand and not the thumb connecting with Hughes eye.

I watched it a number of times last night, I DO NOT see a thumb to the eye. I think Mathew got a lucky break to get a few seconds to recover. Did it change the outcome of the fight? Maybe not.

Crashsti · 09-28-2006, 03:03 PM

there is certainly eye contact made in that exchange, its the severity of it that should be questioned. was it bad enough to stop the fight? Matt thought so. has BJ commented on the eye-poke? i have'nt read anything about him disputing the time out. regardless i don't think that either Matt or BJ is going to resort to eye gouges to win a fight. in MMA there are open fingers and the thumb is loose as well, eye pokes are going to occur.

OneBigThrow · 09-28-2006, 06:17 PM

this may be a rudimentary point, but aren't you supposed to punch with your thumb out? thats why it happens so much..if that is universally taught

jody · 09-28-2006, 06:17 PM

Come on guys Matt got hit pretty hard with that punch look at his knees they buckle as for the poke i dont really see it but hay if i got hit like that and got poked a little id take advantage of it to. Thats why he the champ. BJ should have pounced on him right away and let Big John make the call on the eye poke "when opportunity presents itself most you take it"

subgenius · 09-28-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

this may be a rudimentary point, but aren't you supposed to punch with your thumb out? thats why it happens so much..if that is universally taught

I'm not an expert on strikng, but my impression is that THAT is a good way to break or injure your thumb. Maybe someone here knows more about boxing and punching.

Gooner · 09-28-2006, 06:36 PM

You're not supposed to "tuck the thumb in" your fist anyway.

GSPALLTHEWAY · 09-28-2006, 07:05 PM

nothing wrong with punching like that, and this is a different type of case because it was a falling to the right counter punch that was semi wild.... its gonna happen all the time.. i feel like chuck is alot more malicious with sticking his fingers out and eye gouging

subgenius · 09-29-2006, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

You're not supposed to "tuck the thumb in" your fist anyway.

You mean you punch with the thumb extended and not folded across your index and middle fingers?

Tinker Bell · 09-29-2006, 06:42 AM

Some very interesting points made in this thread so far. I agree with most people as I just don't think BJ Penn meant to do it intentionally as he was just counter punching and that Matt didn't get poked in the eye but rather a knuckle which is part of your fist and in that case Matt shouldn't have gotten the time he did to recover. BJ Penn could have followed up with more punches and gotten a takedown but he stepped back and gave Matt the time he needed.