TUF 6: Episode 9 - Page 2 - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saskabush

I didn't think that there was anything wrong with the way Hughes reacted. Hightower's "meeting" was plain stupid, he didn't even have anything to say. I liked how Hughes said he isn't there to make friends, he is there to coach. I highly doubt he would stoop so low as to sabotage the fighters just to spite team annoying a.k.a. Matt Serra. Serra really needs to grow up imo, after he gets dominated by Hughes I think that his career in the UFC is over. I went into the show hating Hughes and liking Serra but that has since been reversed.

I agree. I thought that the "meeting" was plain stupid and annoyingly so. Hughes reacted like anybody else, I suppose. It was like a high school BS moment, like Hughes said. Hughes is not a young kid like these guys on the show. I can relate with him not wanting to make a bunch of friends that are ten-to-twelve years younger. I felt Hughes was just being serious and keeping it professional.

Also, since nobody on Serra's team stepped up to volunteer to have Hughes in their corner and training, then why should Hughes feel that he has to be friends with the guys that flipped coins to be switched? It's not like Hughes will sabotage these guys. Just the opposite. If Hughes helps them beat the guys that Serra matched thim up against, then he pokes Serra in the eye.

And, I agree also that my views of Serra and Hughes have changed. I never hated on Hughes, though. I did like Serra more as a person. But, now, Serra has dissappointed me with too much BS and his obsession with Hughes.

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by WarDawg

This is the problem with Hughes .He doesn't connect with his fighters. He could have talked to the adopted guys and get on even ground and such. No he was with people keep kicking him in the nads and poke him in the eye. He's a Richard. I think Serra vs Hughes will be a good fight. Even if Hughes wins, GSP is going to retire him for good. Hughes is a horrible coach. Serra is a much better coach. Maybe not a better fighter.But deffiently a better coach.IMO WD

I disagree. Serra is merely a more experienced coach. Matt Hughes has far, far more actual MMA experience with 46 fighst than Serra has had in MMA with only eleven fights. I am sorry, but that's the truth. And, Dana White was right when he told the fighters that they were wrong to doubt Hughes and toss aside Hughes' experience and knowledge.

Also, we do NOT see very much of the training. So, we really have very little to judge by in that regard. A lot of what we do see on TUF (the drama and the training) has been scripted or sketched out. So, it's really hard to judge whether we are seeing things as really real or just as "Reality TV" BS.

Before anybody blasts me for saying that, Script magazine had an article that focused on several Reality TV writers. In the "Reality 101" section of the article it actually cited The Ultimate Fighter as an example in how they write for Reality TV. The writer stated that TUF was scripted. He stated that, "...the writers or story producers pre-interviewed all the fighters and created their stories based on those interviews or to find the stories based on the person." The only truly real and un-manipulated aspect of TUF has been the fights.

So, I think that the Serra-Hughes story has really just been designed to promote their fight. I don't think that Serra, out in the real world away from cameras and story producers, would act as outrageous as he has been. And, I think that Hughes is likely not stand-off-ish at all the way people seem to think. It's all exaggerated. Even the whole bit about that "meeting" in the last episode was just BS to create more drama.

Harms · 11-15-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I agree. I thought that the "meeting" was plain stupid and annoyingly so. Hughes reacted like anybody else, I suppose. It was like a high school BS moment, like Hughes said. Hughes is not a young kid like these guys on the show. I can relate with him not wanting to make a bunch of friends that are ten-to-twelve years younger. I felt Hughes was just being serious and keeping it professional.

Also, since nobody on Serra's team stepped up to volunteer to have Hughes in their corner and training, then why should Hughes feel that he has to be friends with the guys that flipped coins to be switched? It's not like Hughes will sabotage these guys. Just the opposite. If Hughes helps them beat the guys that Serra matched thim up against, then he pokes Serra in the eye.

And, I agree also that my views of Serra and Hughes have changed. I never hated on Hughes, though. I did like Serra more as a person. But, now, Serra has dissappointed me with too much BS and his obsession with Hughes.

I don't really think the meeting had anything to do with them being friends. It seemed that the fighters were hoping for a comfort level to be established and instead Hughes basically just blows them off. It really couldn't be that hard for Hughes to say, "I understand, I'm here to help you win." Instead of saying, "they pay me to coach", exit stage right. It was rather obvious that Arroyo or Hightower wanted to go over to Hughes, so they seemed to just want to remove the awkwardness of the whole situation and Hughes didn't seem to be able open a can of care.

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

I don't really think the meeting had anything to do with them being friends. It seemed that the fighters were hoping for a comfort level to be established and instead Hughes basically just blows them off. It really couldn't be that hard for Hughes to say, "I understand, I'm here to help you win." Instead of saying, "they pay me to coach", exit stage right. It was rather obvious that Arroyo or Hightower wanted to go over to Hughes, so they seemed to just want to remove the awkwardness of the whole situation and Hughes didn't seem to be able open a can of care.

I am fairly certain that Hughes has stated many times that he's there to coach the guys to win. I mean, do you really think that Hughes wants all the fighters that he coaches to lose? Or that he wants these two Serra fighters to lose? And, what is with all the touchy-feely care for me and love me BS? Is this MMA fighting or guys playing with Barbie Dolls? I think those two fighters were just whacked. They wanted something that was silly and mamby-pamby.

bayouboy · 11-15-2007, 10:56 AM

The look from Hughes and his coaches was classic. I really don't blame him for having the reaction that he had one little bit. Hightower looked like a complete fool with his nonsense. Maybe I missed it but I didn't really see George doing much complaining. Guys like him and Mac are there for one reason - to win.

Gooner · 11-15-2007, 11:00 AM

Actually, it looked like Fiore was pretty understanding with the fellas, but then Hughes kinda cut him off with his straight talk express.

Whatevs.
Richie was a babbling girl and Hughes was being Hughes.

Harms · 11-15-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I am fairly certain that Hughes has stated many times that he's there to coach the guys to win. I mean, do you really think that Hughes wants all the fighters that he coaches to lose? Or that he wants these two Serra fighters to lose? And, what is with all the touchy-feely care for me and love me BS? Is this MMA fighting or guys playing with Barbie Dolls? I think those two fighters were just whacked. They wanted something that was silly and mamby-pamby.

I'm sure Hughes stated that to hisfighters. The fact is they weren't his fighters. He came across as to not caring what happened to them and this isn't the audience it came across to, but what the fighters said themselves. This is mmafighting, but there should be a certain level of trust and respect established with training. Hughes wanted to make the whole thing about himself when in the end, it is the fighters who have to fight, so he should have went out of his way to help them win and I think for the fighters in question, it started out with a comfort level to be established.

As for your whole scripting stuff you always have to bring up, do you really believe that all the fighters complaints on Hughes training is scripted. Danzig said, "I've dealt with poor training before.." I find it hard to see them make Danzig say something he didn't believe.

bayouboy · 11-15-2007, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

I'm sure Hughes stated that to hisfighters. The fact is they weren't his fighters. He came across as to not caring what happened to them and this isn't the audience it came across to, but what the fighters said themselves. This is mmafighting, but there should be a certain level of trust and respect established with training. Hughes wanted to make the whole thing about himself when in the end, it is the fighters who have to fight, so he should have went out of his way to help them win and I think for the fighters in question, it started out with a comfort level to be established.

As for your whole scripting stuff you always have to bring up, do you really believe that all the fighters complaints on Hughes training is scripted. Danzig said, "I've dealt with poor training before.." I find it hard to see them make Danzig say something he didn't believe.

I like you Harms but I find this to be nonsense

T-Bone · 11-15-2007, 11:10 AM

Good fight by Mac. JK was outclassed and really liked holding on to Mac's leg for some reason.

Mac complained about the poor training (no surprise) and lack of sparring partners (big surprise there). Why didn't Hughes and/or Lawler spar with him?

As for the Hightower meeting, it was stupid. He should know better than to bother talking to Hughes about anything than a masterful gameplan. Yeah, Hughes could've been cool about it since he's always saying the fight game is mental...but this is Matt Hughes - you're gonna get the smirk and put downs. That's how he rolls.

It was interesting that Serra let his fighters pick the fights. I (and Ray Longo) don't think it was the smartest thing to do but whatever. Serra was being a little too team-y...sure it sucks but let 'em go.

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

I'm sure Hughes stated that to hisfighters. The fact is they weren't his fighters. He came across as to not caring what happened to them and this isn't the audience it came across to, but what the fighters said themselves. This is mmafighting, but there should be a certain level of trust and respect established with training. Hughes wanted to make the whole thing about himself when in the end, it is the fighters who have to fight, so he should have went out of his way to help them win and I think for the fighters in question, it started out with a comfort level to be established.

As for your whole scripting stuff you always have to bring up, do you really believe that all the fighters complaints on Hughes training is scripted. Danzig said, "I've dealt with poor training before.." I find it hard to see them make Danzig say something he didn't believe.

Mac Danzig is an exception here. He's the ringer. He has the most experience and the most skills. He's way above a beginner coach. And, lets face facts, Hughes is not Greg Jackson, Pat Miletich, or even Matt Serra when it comes to coaching experience. Danzig should be training with a top level coach. Actually, Danzig is too good for TUF. He should already be in the UFC.

And, to me, what most people say is "bad coaching" really is just inexperienced coaching at worst. But, it's NOT just Hughes coaching on Team Hughes. So, people are not just attacking Hughes. They are also slamming Robbie Lawler and the other Miletich guys on Hughes' coaching staff.

Harms · 11-15-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayouboy

I like you Harms but I find this to be nonsense

I was wondering when you or Opsy would chime in. I want to like Hughes, I really do. I try to look past what I see on interviews by him, about him and TUF. I do have an uncanny sense of recognizing an a-hole though, and it my a-hole sense just starts screaming when I look at him.

Harms · 11-15-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Mac Danzig is an exception here. He's the ringer. He has the most experience and the most skills. He's way above a beginner coach. And, lets face facts, Hughes is not Greg Jackson, Pat Miletich, or even Matt Serra when it comes to coaching experience. Danzig should be training with a top level coach. Actually, Danzig is too good for TUF. He should already be in the UFC.

And, to me, what most people say is "bad coaching" really is just inexperienced coaching at worst. But, it's NOT just Hughes coaching on Team Hughes. So, people are not just attacking Hughes. They are also slamming Robbie Lawler and the other Miletich guys on Hughes' coaching staff.

I agree that Danzig has no business being on this show.

It's kinda like any professional team coaching staff. The head coach gets the most blame.

Edit: I gotta go to work, I will try and respond to any comment when I get back tonight.

bayouboy · 11-15-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harms

I was wondering when you or Opsy would chime in. I want to like Hughes, I really do. I try to look past what I see on interviews by him, about him and TUF. I do have an uncanny sense of recognizing an a-hole though, and it my a-hole sense just starts screaming when I look at him.

If that happens when you see Hughes I'd hate to see what happens when Serra walks in

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Good fight by Mac. JK was outclassed and really liked holding on to Mac's leg for some reason.

Mac complained about the poor training (no surprise) and lack of sparring partners (big surprise there). Why didn't Hughes and/or Lawler spar with him?

As for the Hightower meeting, it was stupid. He should know better than to bother talking to Hughes about anything than a masterful gameplan. Yeah, Hughes could've been cool about it since he's always saying the fight game is mental...but this is Matt Hughes - you're gonna get the smirk and put downs. That's how he rolls.

It was interesting that Serra let his fighters pick the fights. I (and Ray Longo) don't think it was the smartest thing to do but whatever. Serra was being a little too team-y...sure it sucks but let 'em go.

I think the training issue is pure BS. They need it for the drama. We see five minutes, a few quotes from people, and little else. They spend most of the time on BS stupidity at the house.

As for Hughes, what put down did he level against the two fighters in that room? And, don't cite those idiotic confessionals. What did he say to them in that room that was a put down?

T-Bone · 11-15-2007, 11:22 AM

Yes, yes sub we know - everything is BS b/c it's a reality show. The training was superior but that wouldn't be good for the show, right?

I still wonder whether Lawler or Hughes sparred with

. Not like he needed it but still would've been nice to see.

Hughes talked down to the outcasts from his high horse...the Hughes way.

Gooner · 11-15-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

And, to me, what most people say is "bad coaching" really is just inexperienced coaching at worst. But, it's NOT just Hughes coaching on Team Hughes. So, people are not just attacking Hughes. They are also slamming Robbie Lawler and the other Miletich guys on Hughes' coaching staff.

They're not "Miletich guys", they're HIT Squad guys, lulz.

Again, I love how this season, TUF 6: PR for my new team has totally backfired.

subgenius · 11-15-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Again, I love how this season, TUF 6: PR for my new team has totally backfired.

Do you mean Serra?

CouchBurner · 11-15-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Good fight by Mac. JK was outclassed and really liked holding on to Mac's leg for some reason.

Mac complained about the poor training (no surprise) and lack of sparring partners (big surprise there). Why didn't Hughes and/or Lawler spar with him?

As for the Hightower meeting, it was stupid. He should know better than to bother talking to Hughes about anything than a masterful gameplan. Yeah, Hughes could've been cool about it since he's always saying the fight game is mental...but this is Matt Hughes - you're gonna get the smirk and put downs. That's how he rolls.

It was interesting that Serra let his fighters pick the fights. I (and Ray Longo) don't think it was the smartest thing to do but whatever. Serra was being a little too team-y...sure it sucks but let 'em go.

Really, he didn't let his fighters pick the fights. Richie said the last person he wanted to fight was George, and look who he is fighting. I think Serra made the right matchups. I'm sure he knows that Danzig is a good bit better than everyone else in the house, with the exception being George. No sense in making the two best fighters fight in the quarterfinals. JK wanted him so he got him. His next task at hand was to take out Speer. Saunders has good striking and a reach advantage, so I don't see that fight being a problem for him. He then put his best fighter (George) against his worst fighter (Richie), which makes good sense since this is a tournament. Then he was left with Matt vs Troy.

One of the best parts of this episode was when Mac was talking about being nice to Blake.