Kalib Starnes Responds - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

sitnspin · 06-13-2006, 07:35 AM

Kalib is posting to the TUF forum now, and here are some quotes about his injury and Ken Shamrock.

"Thank you for your interest and criticism. The injury to my sternum occured in the first round from a roundhouse kick, however it wasn't until the knee in the second round that I felt it was appropriate to bring it to the attention of the referee, as I thought that the doctor should look at it before the fight continued, fearing permenant injury. The referee however ignored me completely as did my corner and the doctor in between rounds, the only people who seemed to care were Tito and Kendall. The injury I suffered was a costo-chondral seperation, as two of my ribs were torn off of the catilage of my sternum one more severley than the other, and it will never be the same as bone and cartilage do not grow back together so easily. Most people are unfamilliar with this type of injury, which takes longer to heal than broken ribs. For two weeks I could not sleep on my sides and it took approximately 10 weeks before I could do a single sit-up. It was extremely disappointing to see Ken Shamrock attack my character like he did, and to have him ignore me after the fight, one would think that he would give me the benefit of the doubt until some contradictory evidence presented itself. Forming opinions and making assertions with little or no evidence however is what made Ken into the great genius we see today and we should not expect this to change any time soon. I like Kendall and none of this should take away from his win, I still talk to him and wish him the best."

"Ken does excellent circuit training on the weights, the best I've ever had. We did it once in seven weeks.

Dan was a very nice guy.

Roman was an excellent boxing coach.

We had no wrestling or jiu-jitsu training to speak of. Ed and I taught Soloman, Tait, Mike, Jesse etc. at the gym and in our spare time at home on the carpet. We were only allowed to train at designated times, which was absolute crap if you ask me. I came there in excellent shape and left in the worst shape I've been in in years, this is not an excuse for my loss by the way, I was beaten fairly, it's just a fact. In the seven weeks prior to my semifinal fight I had about two weeks worth of good training. Ken stopped me from training with Ed, my best sparring partner, because he thought we may end up fighting later on. Every day going to the the gym was a disappointment and I did not want to be there at all, which is not the way I am usually"

Nimmy · 06-13-2006, 07:42 AM

sitnspin i think subgenius would like to see that

Bomber · 06-13-2006, 09:41 AM

Wow, that's pretty damning stuff as far as I'm concerned. Coupled with what we saw on the show and all the griping from Shamrock's team about their training, it's clear that there were big problems with the big guy's coaching ability.

I watched the fight with Groves again last night. At one point, Starnes stopped and said (paraphrasing) "I broke a rib or something". The ref didn't respond and Groves hesitated a second and then kicked him in the injured side. Then Ken and the corner man ignored Starnes at the end of the round.

I guess Starnes should have insisted on seeing a doctor. Shamrock disbelieving Starnes during and after the fight reflects pretty badly on Ken now.

Tuffguy · 06-13-2006, 10:01 AM

I think his comments showed that Kalib is a great sportsman. Although he did state why he did lose the fight and the training he received was not the greatest, he did not use that take away from Kendal's win. I respect that. He was one of my favorites for taking the contract home but now I'm actually leaning more towards Kendal. I have yet to be impressed by Ed, but Kalib did vouch for him so he may still impress in the semi's against Rory (who needs to get knocked out for being whinny).

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 10:08 AM

So, when do we get to see the medical reports? He is making excuses. This idiot even admits to not wanting to train. It is a disgrace. But, he did confirm one thing that I have been saying. "We were only allowed to train at designated times, which was absolute crap if you ask me." So, there goes all that BS about not training. Kalib did not likely show up like he said, "In the best shape of my life." I highly doubt that now.

EDIT: let's not also forget that Kalib is the idiot that said, ""I don't care what team I am on. I'm not listening to shamrock. I'm here to win on my own." And, he was also among those giving Shamrock BS about the toughness of the training -- whinning about not wanting to get hurt.

sitnspin · 06-13-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

And, he was also among those giving Shamrock BS about the toughness of the training -- whinning about not wanting to get hurt.

He'd just fought and won a fight, he was banged up and tired, and Ken was insisting that he spar as hard as the guys who were still at 100% and preparing for their fights. All he was asking was that he get some time to take it easier in sparring until the damage from his fight healed a bit. That seems perfectly logical to me.

It seemed like the only times Ken chose to really step up the intensity of training was at the worst possible times -- the day before someone's fight, or immediately after. Really intelligent.

I should have known Kalib's statement would have no effect on you. And of course you're not going to see a medical report. When have you ever seen the actual medical report for any fighter's injuries? So what you've done is established criteria that no one will ever be able to satisfy, allowing yourself to remain blissfully unaware in your magic little dreamland (aka "Shamrockville").

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sitnspin

He'd just fought and won a fight, he was banged up and tired, and Ken was insisting that he spar as hard as the guys who were still at 100% and preparing for their fights. All he was asking was that he get some time to take it easier in sparring until the damage from his fight healed a bit. That seems perfectly logical to me.

It seemed like the only times Ken chose to really step up the intensity of training was at the worst possible times -- the day before someone's fight, or immediately after. Really intelligent.

I should have known Kalib's statement would have no effect on you. And of course you're not going to see a medical report. When have you ever seen the actual medical report for any fighter's injuries? So what you've done is established criteria that no one will ever be able to satisfy, allowing yourself to remain blissfully unaware in your magic little dreamland (aka "Shamrockville").

Logical?

No, he complains of too much training and then complains of not enough training...

Which is it?

And, yes... we have seen medical reports posted here before. After the Diaz-Sanchez fight they released a ton of reports on UFC medical suspensions. You knew that as well as the rest of us. Kalib is pulling a fast one. He can do that at TUF forums because Shamrock never posts there and no one can refute what Kalib is saying. He is trying to save face.

Nimmy · 06-13-2006, 12:18 PM

fasten your seatbealts, here we go again

sitnspin · 06-13-2006, 12:25 PM

No, I see how pointless it is to try and convince him of what we're all talking about. I'm trying my best to let it go.

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 12:37 PM

Look, I have already agreed that Shamrock is not as good a coach as Tito is on TUF3. But, when people say that he is "the worst coach ever"... Well, it just rings untrue. Everything we see on TUF is staged except the actual fights. It is a storyline that the cast and crew have all signed onto and have agreed to keep it that way even after the show. The producers control everything that we see on the show. Everything that is said and done at the house. It is all calculated and scripted. The producers stand behind the cameras the entire time.

Tito Ortiz has been a high school and college coach. He definately has a much better connection to these younger guys (who act like they are in high school). Kalib is one of the biggest examples of that behavior. I mean, let us take a look at what we have seen on TUF3 so far (quoted from a poster at TUF3 forums):

- coaches cat fighting with each other
- a coach cat fighting with his team
- a coach walking out on practice
- a "contestant" (can't even use the word "fighter") quitting for his girl
- bubble bath wrestling matches
- a pile of talk
- an anal-retentive whining over the cleanliness of the house
- two guys turning down fights
- teasing of a deaf guy
- birthday parties
- clogged toilets
- too much tattoo chat (can't we get our fill from "Inked"?)

That is what we get with the Reality TV show that is TUF3. A bunch of drama queen nonesense mixed in with some low quality level fights.

Nimmy · 06-13-2006, 12:37 PM

ha ha just seen ur name, funcrusher, how is responsible for that

Bomber · 06-13-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

This idiot even admits to not wanting to train.

Which proves to me that he's pretty honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

let's not also forget that Kalib is the idiot that said, ""I don't care what team I am on. I'm not listening to shamrock. I'm here to win on my own."

Makes perftect sense to me. MMA is not a team sport. I don't understand why they want to pretend it is on the show, especially when near the end you're just as likely to fight one of your "team mates", and your coach could be in your team mate's corner. It's ridiculous AFAIC. And it's one reason I'll always wonder whether Bisping, deliberately or subconsciously, went a little too hard on Matt's arm.

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Which proves to me that he's pretty honest.

Makes perftect sense to me. MMA is not a team sport. I don't understand why they want to pretend it is on the show, especially when near the end you're just as likely to fight one of your "team mates", and your coach could be in your team mate's corner. It's ridiculous AFAIC. And it's one reason I'll always wonder whether Bisping, deliberately or subconsciously, went a little too hard on Matt's arm.

Honest in which way though? Too much training or not enough? He has deniablity that is for sure. A few months from now he might safely say he was proud to be with Shamrock's team. Until the Finale is done, and we have winners for TUF3, we will not know whether a lot of this was BS. I just don't buy what he said. In that post from TUF3 Forums he is contradictory in many ways, but he never said, "I hate Shamrock, he's the worst coach ever."

I agree about the team comments. TUF is ultimately a 1v1 competition. This whole show has been based on Ken versus Tito, and me, myself, and I attitudes. The IFL may be a team league, but the fighters are still in the matches alone. They have cornermen and coaches yelling at them, but they do it all themselves (no tag teams or whatever).

I am to the point of disgust with TUF3 that I may not watch TUF again after TUF4. The only reason for my watching TUF4 is that it is the comeback season. But, if they make those really real professional MMA fighters behave the same way we see the little league MMA fighters on TUF3 acting, then I am done with TUF for good. I will DVR the episodes, fastforward the high school soap apera nonesense, and just watch the fight...

GSPALLTHEWAY · 06-13-2006, 01:09 PM

you want to see the medical report!? lol thats enough for me... i believe him and once again i dont know who shamrock is to give him a hard time after quitting in the corner of a clinch in a pride fight... kalib is real tough and will be back... he gave credit to kendall and both are exciting to watch... shamrock will get what he deserves at ufc 61

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPalltheway

you want to see the medical report!? lol thats enough for me... i believe him and once again i dont know who shamrock is to give him a hard time after quitting in the corner of a clinch in a pride fight... kalib is real tough and will be back... he gave credit to kendall and both are exciting to watch... shamrock will get what he deserves at ufc 61

Why? We have seen medical reports in the past. We saw Franklin and Loisuea actually at the hospital. We got a detailed accounting of medical suspensions for many PPV's last year. So, why not show us what the doctors said about Kalib's supposedly damaged ribs and sternum? Is it suddenly convenient to not let the fans know about the injuries? Is it that the UFC is afraid of being labeled too brutal? Too late for that...

Just for the record, I am not a big fan of Shamrock. I think that Ortiz is a better coach for these high school primadonnas. But, I want Tito to beat Shamrock just like you guys. I thought Shamrock was washed up after Franklin clocked him good. The Kimo fight was good, but Shamrock's best fighting days are behind him. The Ortiz match is the last hoorah for Shamrock, as far as I am concerned.

But, this is not connected to his ability to coach. The Lion's Den Dallas trains Vale Tudo fighters, Pancrase fighters, and a few MMA fighters... It is a successful school. Is Team Punnishment more successful than The Lion's Den? As far as I can tell, there are two MMA fighters from Team Punishment that are listed at Sherdog: Tito Ortiz and Ricco Rodriguez. Travis lutter and Guy Mezger were with The Lion's Den. I liked Mezger, but his best days are behind him as well.

Nimmy · 06-13-2006, 01:25 PM

- coaches cat fighting with each other
- a coach cat fighting with his team
- a coach walking out on practice
- a "contestant" (can't even use the word "fighter") quitting for his girl
- bubble bath wrestling matches
- a pile of talk
- an anal-retentive whining over the cleanliness of the house
- two guys turning down fights
- teasing of a deaf guy
- birthday parties
- clogged toilets
- too much tattoo chat (can't we get our fill from "Inked"?)

That is what we get with the Reality TV show that is TUF3. A bunch of drama queen nonesense mixed in with some low quality level fights.[/font][/quote]

lets look at this then, each point numbered as related to specific team or coach.

1.shamrock
2.shamrock
3. Ortiz
4.both
5. otiz
6. shamrock
7. shamrock (although both at times, mainly shamrock team tho)
8. i dont recall that
9. Shamrock
10. mainly Shamrocks team.

hmm mainly shamrock, we could also add the points of fighters, wanting to train with the other team, complaints of poor training, complaints of wrong choice of coaching, fighters forced to train each other.

subgenius · 06-13-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

- coaches cat fighting with each other
- a coach cat fighting with his team
- a coach walking out on practice
- a "contestant" (can't even use the word "fighter") quitting for his girl
- bubble bath wrestling matches
- a pile of talk
- an anal-retentive whining over the cleanliness of the house
- two guys turning down fights
- teasing of a deaf guy
- birthday parties
- clogged toilets
- too much tattoo chat (can't we get our fill from "Inked"?)

lets look at this then, each point numbered as related to specific team or coach.

1.shamrock
2.shamrock
3. Ortiz
4.both
5. otiz
6. shamrock
7. shamrock (although both at times, mainly shamrock team tho)
8. i dont recall that
9. Shamrock
10. mainly Shamrocks team.

hmm mainly shamrock, we could also add the points of fighters, wanting to train with the other team, complaints of poor training, complaints of wrong choice of coaching, fighters forced to train each other.

Now, come on -- number one is cleary both Tito and Shamrock. And, it was proved on the show that Shamrock never walked out on any training session. That was stated in a preview, but the very next episode clearly stated that the training session was CANCELLED. All of the rest of that is ONLY on the fighters. Shamrock and Ortiz are not holding the hands of these guys when they are not training and they are at the house. I cannot believe that you tried to go this direction.

sitnspin · 06-13-2006, 01:32 PM

Sub, your perception of how the show works is getting a bit out of hand. I'm fully aware of how controlled reality TV is. I watched the first five or six seasons of Survivor and the first two U.S. Big Brothers, and I paid very close attention to the former contestants' reports on what stuff was staged.

For example, on Survivor, after an event is over, they often have them re-run parts of it because they didn't get the right camera shots. Beyond that, the producers have admitted that they've gone back and shot the equivalent of stunt-doubles from a long way away, because there was something they wanted to include well after the fact.

Rich Franklin was saying how annoying it was on TUF2 when either an argument or a serious heart-to-heart would take place, and then the producers would insist that the participants do it again in a better location where the lighting and scenery were favourable.

I'm also aware that creative editing can allow them to make things seem like they transpired a little differently from how they actually went down.

BUT...

Your statement that

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Everything we see on TUF is staged except the actual fights. It is a storyline that the cast and crew have all signed onto and have agreed to keep it that way even after the show. The producers control everything that we see on the show. Everything that is said and done at the house. It is all calculated and scripted. The producers stand behind the cameras the entire time.

is RIDICULOUS! They occasionally tell them to chat about how much they like the sponsors' products, or interview them with leading questions to provoke certain negative comments, but you sound insane for suggesting that it's 100% scripted and staged, and these guys are playing out a preconceived storyline. Come on -- you know it's not like that. No one who's been on the show has ever, ever said anything to substantiate that.

Here are a couple of quotes from Josh Haynes on the subject:

"I feel the people editing the tapes did a good job catching each of the fighters personality. I was there for business. I wasn't there to party or make a fool of myself on camera and tried to say out of the BS drama, for the most part. I was focused on my training, getting enough rest and doing my best to win the thing. The folks at Spike have accurately captured what was going on in the house."

"The cameras became just another part of the house after a while. After the first few days you start to forget they are even around. As far as scripts go, there were no scripts. Everything you see is all natural. I don’t think most of those guys could read anyhow."

This last one was in response to a question about the little one-on-one interview clips the fighters do throughout the show, away from the rest of the house, and what determined when they did them:

"The one on one's are not optional. If you were asked to speak you spoke. Everyone got a lot of tape time on the show. Simply put I was there for business. I am not a drinker, I tried not to talk a lot of smack and I don’t run around acting the fool. I guess in the end that translates to less camera time. I am ok with that.

I'm sure Spike will edit the show as they see fit. I cannot begin to guess their reasons for who they do and do not show."

sitnspin · 06-13-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

ha ha just seen ur name, funcrusher, how is responsible for that

I picked that one myself, actually. Funcrusher Plus was the name of an album by the now-disbanded hip hop group Company Flow. I just like the word.